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Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

Look at all the apologists coming to defend the actions of police brutality.

If you care anything about American rights and the constitution, you would not be cheering for the disempowerment of your fellow citizens.

I am disgusted with many commentators on this site. You repulse me with how you celebrate people getting their skulls cracked open and First Amendment rights jackbooted.

You won't be celebrating when one day they come for you.
 
Ikari said:
At this point we have immediate concern, however. From measured quantities we saw this man get injured during a period of launching projectiles and gas cans into the crowd (a technique that apparently isn't standard for dispersal). As this is government force against our own people, I do think that this requires investigation and not dismissal. There is enough from measured quantity to assume that there is a decent chance this man was injured through police action. Under such circumstance then, we must determine what happened. We must question the police as to why the responded in that manner, was that manner justified. Since this is action of the State against the exercise of the rights of the individual, we must demonstrate the State was within proper restraint to take the action it did.
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I agree wholeheartedly. When police use this kind of force, it needs to be justified with accurate, follow up reporting. But it seems like they are just able to do it now without any real investigation into why, other than the word of a few.

Why does the media, government, and some members of the public readily dismiss what the protesters have to say about what happened, yet they will immediately accept the story of some police officers?

If police are seriously injuring people without just cause, they need to be brought up on charges. I'm tired of the double-standard.
 
What if...? said:
He went down like a sack of potatoes right after the big burst just downscreen.

You can see it in the video if you look. My wife saw it first and pointed it out to me, but its there. Looks just like some piece of shrapnel got him, not that he was struck directly.
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Which I can accept..........

It disturbs me for folks to act as if the intent was to hit him in the head with a direct shot, like that stupid Marine in this article claims.
 
Temporal said:
If police are seriously injuring people without just cause, they need to be brought up on charges. I'm tired of the double-standard.
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All you have are protesters making opposing claims.

Except,

We already have a protester who was present in Oakland during the attempted "Re-Taking" of the park (where the alleged "Brutality" occurred) who admitted on MSNBC that the crowd started throwing stuff at police before they began their crowd control techniques of using rubber bullets, riot control agents, etc.

I admire her honest though, because she was very hesitant to answer the question, and then finally answered it with a sort of "So what?" attitude/tone.
 
Caine said:
Which I can accept..........

It disturbs me for folks to act as if the intent was to hit him in the head with a direct shot, like that stupid Marine in this article claims.
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That would be ****ty and contrary to training I'm sure. Cops can be dicks and succumb to testosterone and adrenaline. Ive seen it with my own eyes. But I don't believe this to be the norm or even common.
 
What if...? said:
That would be ****ty and contrary to training I'm sure. Cops can be dicks and succumb to testosterone and adrenaline. Ive seen it with my own eyes. But I don't believe this to be the norm or even common.
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The problem I have with the anger towards police about the unfortunate injury is....

Once that round leaves the device used to fire it, and lands in or about its intended target..... what happens to it after that is outside of any human control.


As to the comment about cops themselves succumbing to testosterone and adrenaline and being dicks.... Well. Yes it does upon occasion happen.

Thats what happens when you have humans doing the job.

ALL human beings are subject to making wrong decisions, decisions made in anger, acting on emotion, or just plain mistakes in judgement, motor control (missing an intended target). However, not all humans are held to the standards that police officers are held to.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Umm, last I checked police officers are still citizens and are still innocent until proven guilty. I don't agree with your seeming implication that people who make claims of government wrong doing somehow should be believed as factually true unless the government proves otherwise.



And here you're making hte assumption that there WAS a response by them that they must prove was appropriate. My issue is I've seen nothing at this point that concludes that is the absolute case.

As I do with every other instance of a potential crime, I'm going to hold off on making grand accusations and demands for action to be taken until the dust settles enough for some semblance of real facts and definitive answer scome out.
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Nonetheless, the onus is on the police to show the correct level of response because they initially have the power to police. Now it could have been an accident where the Marine happen to be standing in the wrong place, in which case it was no one's fault. In the large crowd the shooter may have been aiming at an open spot, but accidently hit the Marine. All I know is this Marine appear innocent, but who knows. Probably mistakes on both sides.
 
American said:
Nonetheless, the onus is on the police to show the correct level of response because they initially have the power to police. Now it could have been an accident where the Marine happen to be standing in the wrong place, in which case it was no one's fault. In the large crowd the shooter may have been aiming at an open spot, but accidently hit the Marine. All I know is this Marine appear innocent, but who knows. Probably mistakes on both sides.
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He was ordered to disburse....

He had the opportunity to prevent himself from being harmed accidentally (or intentionally if one still chooses to think so).
 
Caine said:
He was ordered to disburse....

He had the opportunity to prevent himself from being harmed accidentally (or intentionally if one still chooses to think so).
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So you think he ran into the grenade on purpose?
 
American said:
So you think he ran into the grenade on purpose?
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I don't recall saying that..
if you want to go with him having been struck by a direct shot.. prove it.
 
American said:
Are you saying the Marine is wrong.
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that is precisely what I am saying. In a warzone, you carry live ammo. because it's a warzone.
 
I guess the OWS people to take a page out of the polices actions.
When you plan on going to an event, where violence may occur, wear protective equipment.

People like to fault the police on this, but they were vastly outnumbered, where all they had in their favor were crowd dispersal tools.
The crowd didn't disperse, the crowd got violent first, the crowd outnumbered the cops and the cops are wrong for defending themselves?

Insanity.
 
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well, as the Oakland folks were rapping

"If you've got a problem with the C-O-P's
Throw a molotov at the P-I-G's"


......digit......:music:
 
I am glad that the rest of the country seems to have more sense than the folks in Oakland.
 
apparently the same longshoremen that were destroying property and taking hostages a month or more back were out there with them. when even Obama's NRLB feels obliged to deplore your "overly aggressive tactics", you know you're over the line.
 
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