• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

Objective Voice

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
12,973
Reaction score
5,701
Location
Huntsville, AL (USA)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I know the stardard rhetorical argument from Conservatives/Republicans "why do you hate the rich?, why do you want to take money from wealthy people? all poor people want are hand-outs" and all the other "redistribution of wealth" arguments, but I've got news for you people. It's no longers just Warren Buffet saying "tax me! I'm good for it" to create jobs in America.

These promonent BILLIONAIRES are also saying "TAX ME! We want to create jobs IN AMERICA because the People want...NEED to work!" Watch these video interviews given by Barbara Walters on ABC's "20/20" of BILLIONAIRES who are saying "TAX ME! CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA!" Even they agree with the Occupiers need to put America back to work!!

Again, the Occupy Movement IS NOT anti-capitalism. It IS anti-corruption. The People just want a job and for AMERICA to get back to work!!!
 
I know the stardard rhetorical argument from Conservatives/Republicans "why do you hate the rich?, why do you want to take money from wealthy people? all poor people want are hand-outs" and all the other "redistribution of wealth" arguments, but I've got news for you people. It's no longers just Warren Buffet saying "tax me! I'm good for it" to create jobs in America.

These promonent BILLIONAIRES are also saying "TAX ME! We want to create jobs IN AMERICA because the People want...NEED to work!" Watch these video interviews given by Barbara Walters on ABC's "20/20" of BILLIONAIRES who are saying "TAX ME! CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA!" Even they agree with the Occupiers need to put America back to work!!

Again, the Occupy Movement IS NOT anti-capitalism. It IS anti-corruption. The People just want a job and for AMERICA to get back to work!!!

Most of these people will not likely pay more taxes with the taxes being proposed. Their money come from Capital gains but we have had this arguement over and over but we will likely beat it to death again.

Buffett did say that he should be taxed more and to do that you have to go after Capital Gains. When Obama proposed new taxes Buffett stated that what he was doing was not what he was proposing.

Without specifics this discussion goes nowhere.
 
I know the stardard rhetorical argument from Conservatives/Republicans "why do you hate the rich?, why do you want to take money from wealthy people? all poor people want are hand-outs" and all the other "redistribution of wealth" arguments, but I've got news for you people. It's no longers just Warren Buffet saying "tax me! I'm good for it" to create jobs in America.

These promonent BILLIONAIRES are also saying "TAX ME! We want to create jobs IN AMERICA because the People want...NEED to work!" Watch these video interviews given by Barbara Walters on ABC's "20/20" of BILLIONAIRES who are saying "TAX ME! CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA!" Even they agree with the Occupiers need to put America back to work!!

Again, the Occupy Movement IS NOT anti-capitalism. It IS anti-corruption. The People just want a job and for AMERICA to get back to work!!!

More taxes have never created jobs.
 
It is hysterical to read about billionaires saying they should be taxed more. They say this after making billions, not before. Hypocrites, every one of them.
 
Still haven't heard a good answer to why they just don't write a bigger check. They also have the option of taking the money they want forced from their wallets and instead just using it as capital for high labor endeavors. They could just overpay everyone since they don't care about that money and don't require a profit.
 
More taxes have never created jobs.

WRONG! Go back and review Reagan's tax policies.

Using the military industrical complex - public/private partnerships (mostly private companies getting state/federal defense contracts) AND raising the payroll tax on the middle-class - the federal government WAS able to create jobs. Now, he was wrong about the multiplier affect with trickle-down (or rather supply-side) economics believing that the overall economy as far as "spreading the wealth from the top down" would move more of the poor and the middle-class up the economic ladder and increase federal revenue. He was wrong because he gave tons of tax breaks to large corporations while taxing the poor and the middle class while also keeping wages low. As such, those at the bottom could not move upward. But, he did lay a decent foundation for job creation in this country. We just came to learn that most of the cost for these federal contracts and tax benefits were paid for on borrowed money. As such, Reagan's economic policies, when not adjusted for inflation, did increase the national debt and deficit by $3 trillion dollars under his watch.

I'm not arguing that he had the wrong idea; Reagan simply put in place best practises as used by those who came before him - Lincoln, FDR, JFK. They all used innovation through military build-up/federal initiatives to create jobs.

Lincoln - the Inter-Continnetal Railroad, the telegraph, the loom to create fabric from cotton and a host of other inventions.

FDR - the war initiative, i.e., ship building, tanks, airplanes, iron works, public works projects

JFK - NASA and the space race!

Reagan - strength through military might = defense contracts

Understand what they did and how they did it. But to believe that the government can't create jobs or that higher taxes discredit job growth is just crazy! I just illustrated four Presidents who used the federal government to do just that!
 
Last edited:
I know the stardard rhetorical argument from Conservatives/Republicans "why do you hate the rich?, why do you want to take money from wealthy people? all poor people want are hand-outs" and all the other "redistribution of wealth" arguments, but I've got news for you people. It's no longers just Warren Buffet saying "tax me! I'm good for it" to create jobs in America.

These promonent BILLIONAIRES are also saying "TAX ME! We want to create jobs IN AMERICA because the People want...NEED to work!" Watch these video interviews given by Barbara Walters on ABC's "20/20" of BILLIONAIRES who are saying "TAX ME! CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA!" Even they agree with the Occupiers need to put America back to work!!

Again, the Occupy Movement IS NOT anti-capitalism. It IS anti-corruption. The People just want a job and for AMERICA to get back to work!!!

Inspiring. He certainly is a good salesman.
 
It is hysterical to read about billionaires saying they should be taxed more. They say this after making billions, not before. Hypocrites, every one of them.

They say it because as BILLIONAIRES they know they'll never truly lose money. They have so much that even if you increase their taxes by 10% they'll still have more than enough money in profits to pay for it. Besides, they'll just find other business ventures to invest in to make still more money. If you listened to those billionaires in the interviews, you should have heard them say they want to reinvest their earnings right here in AMERICA on AMERICAN businesses that create products right here IN AMERICA! You and I both know that manufacturing has gone down in this country for years. As such, these wealthy individuals have little choice but to invest their money overseas. Doesn't it then make sense that if you want them to bring that money AND those jobs back here in the U.S., you have to create manufacturing jobs here IN AMERICA?

As one of the supporters of the Occupy movement, I WANT the 1% to increase to %5...10%...20%....25%...50%. I want more Americans to become part of the wealth class. I do envy them, but in a good way. I think most of us would be lying if we said we didn't want their oppulance. My only beef is with those who act like those investment bankers in the book, "Too Big to Fail" who fought among themselves not about what was the right thing to do to preserve the properity of the nation, but rather they fought among themselves to retain or GAIN a larger piece of the economic pie and cared less about the fate of the nation. That's what I have a problem with. That's what the Occupy movement is trying to convey to all of America.

Let's reverse this argument just for a second, however, and direct it at the poor. I don't blame all poor people for their economic situation. I know some who are poor not by their own choosing or their own doing. Some got into unforeseen accidents and have medical bills they can't afford. Some lost their jobs through no fault of their own. Some went from a two-income household to one primary bread winner; in some cases it was due to one spouse losing his/her job, in others, one wage earned left (divorce). These people I have no problem whatsoever lending a helping hand to. But those who take advantage of the entitlement system and are, in fact, lazy and don't want to work but instead purposely rely on WIC, TANF, Medicaid/SSDI - those people I do have a problem with. But make no mistake, there IS a difference between the two bottom extremes just as there is a difference between the two top extremes. Moreover, to think that laziness and addictive behavior only happens with certain demographics, i.e., Blacks, Hispanics or other minority groups alone, is just wrong! It happens with people across ALL racial divides.

Once people start viewing things not from one extreme or the other, but seek a more middle-ground point of view, then and only then I believe will this nation beging to really change.
 
WRONG! Go back and review Reagan's tax policies.

Using the military industrical complex - public/private partnerships (mostly private companies getting state/federal defense contracts) AND raising the payroll tax on the middle-class - the federal government WAS able to create jobs. Now, he was wrong about the multiplier affect with trickle-down (or rather supply-side) economics believing that the overall economy as far as "spreading the wealth from the top down" would move more of the poor and the middle-class up the economic ladder and increase federal revenue. He was wrong because he gave tons of tax breaks to large corporations while taxing the poor and the middle class while also keeping wages low. As such, those at the bottom could not move upward. But, he did lay a decent foundation for job creation in this country. We just came to learn that most of the cost for these federal contracts and tax benefits were paid for on borrowed money. As such, Reagan's economic policies, when not adjusted for inflation, did increase the national debt and deficit by $3 trillion dollars under his watch.

I'm not arguing that he had the wrong idea; Reagan simply put in place best practises as used by those who came before him - Lincoln, FDR, JFK. They all used innovation through military build-up/federal initiatives to create jobs.

Lincoln - the Inter-Continnetal Railroad, the telegraph, the loom to create fabric from cotton and a host of other inventions.

FDR - the war initiative, i.e., ship building, tanks, airplanes, iron works, public works projects

JFK - NASA and the space race!

Reagan - strength through military might = defense contracts

Understand what they did and how they did it. But to believe that the government can't create jobs or that higher taxes discredit job growth is just crazy! I just illustrated four Presidents who used the federal government to do just that!

For the gazillionth time: The government can't create jobs.
 
They say it because as BILLIONAIRES they know they'll never truly lose money. They have so much that even if you increase their taxes by 10% they'll still have more than enough money in profits to pay for it. Besides, they'll just find other business ventures to invest in to make still more money. If you listened to those billionaires in the interviews, you should have heard them say they want to reinvest their earnings right here in AMERICA on AMERICAN businesses that create products right here IN AMERICA! You and I both know that manufacturing has gone down in this country for years. As such, these wealthy individuals have little choice but to invest their money overseas. Doesn't it then make sense that if you want them to bring that money AND those jobs back here in the U.S., you have to create manufacturing jobs here IN AMERICA?

As one of the supporters of the Occupy movement, I WANT the 1% to increase to %5...10%...20%....25%...50%. I want more Americans to become part of the wealth class. I do envy them, but in a good way. I think most of us would be lying if we said we didn't want their oppulance. My only beef is with those who act like those investment bankers in the book, "Too Big to Fail" who fought among themselves not about what was the right thing to do to preserve the properity of the nation, but rather they fought among themselves to retain or GAIN a larger piece of the economic pie and cared less about the fate of the nation. That's what I have a problem with. That's what the Occupy movement is trying to convey to all of America.

Let's reverse this argument just for a second, however, and direct it at the poor. I don't blame all poor people for their economic situation. I know some who are poor not by their own choosing or their own doing. Some got into unforeseen accidents and have medical bills they can't afford. Some lost their jobs through no fault of their own. Some went from a two-income household to one primary bread winner; in some cases it was due to one spouse losing his/her job, in others, one wage earned left (divorce). These people I have no problem whatsoever lending a helping hand to. But those who take advantage of the entitlement system and are, in fact, lazy and don't want to work but instead purposely rely on WIC, TANF, Medicaid/SSDI - those people I do have a problem with. But make no mistake, there IS a difference between the two bottom extremes just as there is a difference between the two top extremes. Moreover, to think that laziness and addictive behavior only happens with certain demographics, i.e., Blacks, Hispanics or other minority groups alone, is just wrong! It happens with people across ALL racial divides.

Once people start viewing things not from one extreme or the other, but seek a more middle-ground point of view, then and only then I believe will this nation beging to really change.

Billionares are free to pay as much in taxes as they wish. There's no law saying that can't increase their own tax bill.

How many of them are actually doing it?
 
Billionares are free to pay as much in taxes as they wish. There's no law saying that can't increase their own tax bill.

How many of them are actually doing it?

That is irrelevant to any discussion of a comprehensive tax policy for the nation and all who live in it. To say that one person can pay more if they wish to is meaningless compared to taxation policy as it applies to over 300 million people in the USA.
 
That is irrelevant to any discussion of a comprehensive tax policy for the nation and all who live in it. To say that one person can pay more if they wish to is meaningless compared to taxation policy as it applies to over 300 million people in the USA.

It's very relevant. If all these billionaires, that belief they don't pay enough taxes, would voluntarily pay more taxes, perhaps we could just leave the tax rates the way they are. If it's actually about revenue vice wealth redistribution, that is.
 
It's very relevant. If all these billionaires, that belief they don't pay enough taxes, would voluntarily pay more taxes, perhaps we could just leave the tax rates the way they are. If it's actually about revenue vice wealth redistribution, that is.

Sorry but it is not. You are talking about an anthill with more than 300 million ants on it and you are focusing on why one does or does not do something. Its silly... its nonsensical ...its inconsequential and its just plain meaningless.
 
They say it because as BILLIONAIRES they know they'll never truly lose money. They have so much that even if you increase their taxes by 10% they'll still have more than enough money in profits to pay for it. Besides, they'll just find other business ventures to invest in to make still more money. If you listened to those billionaires in the interviews, you should have heard them say they want to reinvest their earnings right here in AMERICA on AMERICAN businesses that create products right here IN AMERICA! You and I both know that manufacturing has gone down in this country for years. As such, these wealthy individuals have little choice but to invest their money overseas. Doesn't it then make sense that if you want them to bring that money AND those jobs back here in the U.S., you have to create manufacturing jobs here IN AMERICA?

As one of the supporters of the Occupy movement, I WANT the 1% to increase to %5...10%...20%....25%...50%. I want more Americans to become part of the wealth class. I do envy them, but in a good way. I think most of us would be lying if we said we didn't want their oppulance. My only beef is with those who act like those investment bankers in the book, "Too Big to Fail" who fought among themselves not about what was the right thing to do to preserve the properity of the nation, but rather they fought among themselves to retain or GAIN a larger piece of the economic pie and cared less about the fate of the nation. That's what I have a problem with. That's what the Occupy movement is trying to convey to all of America.

Let's reverse this argument just for a second, however, and direct it at the poor. I don't blame all poor people for their economic situation. I know some who are poor not by their own choosing or their own doing. Some got into unforeseen accidents and have medical bills they can't afford. Some lost their jobs through no fault of their own. Some went from a two-income household to one primary bread winner; in some cases it was due to one spouse losing his/her job, in others, one wage earned left (divorce). These people I have no problem whatsoever lending a helping hand to. But those who take advantage of the entitlement system and are, in fact, lazy and don't want to work but instead purposely rely on WIC, TANF, Medicaid/SSDI - those people I do have a problem with. But make no mistake, there IS a difference between the two bottom extremes just as there is a difference between the two top extremes. Moreover, to think that laziness and addictive behavior only happens with certain demographics, i.e., Blacks, Hispanics or other minority groups alone, is just wrong! It happens with people across ALL racial divides.

Once people start viewing things not from one extreme or the other, but seek a more middle-ground point of view, then and only then I believe will this nation beging to really change.

Taxing successful people and businesses more will not create a single job, it will kill more jobs.....period. The fact that 20/20 could find a few narcissistic billionaires that wanted to go on record to display their rank hypocrisy is not compelling evidence we need to start plucking feathers off Golden Geese to produce more golden eggs.
 
Sorry but it is not. You are talking about an anthill with more than 300 million ants on it and you are focusing on why one does or does not do something. Its silly... its nonsensical ...its inconsequential and its just plain meaningless.

I do not believe that they really want their taxes increased. If there was a real effort to increase their taxes by addressing capital gains, you would hear a huge cry of protest from these very same people.

They say the right things because they know then it's more likely they will be left alone.
 
Billionares are free to pay as much in taxes as they wish. There's no law saying that can't increase their own tax bill.

How many of them are actually doing it?

So far......zero, nada, zilch.
 
Okay...if you say so...:roll:

They can not create self sustainable jobs. O.K., maybe they can create a forest ranger who is paid with camping fee's but I shouldn't have to pay to stay somewhere I already own.

They can in the large picture only create jobs that are paid by forcibly taking from others.
 
Billionares are free to pay as much in taxes as they wish. There's no law saying that can't increase their own tax bill.

No, there's just a law saying that the IRS has to take exactly what you owe, no more and no less. So no, no one is actually able to increase their taxes at will.
 
I know the stardard rhetorical argument from Conservatives/Republicans "why do you hate the rich?, why do you want to take money from wealthy people? all poor people want are hand-outs" and all the other "redistribution of wealth" arguments, but I've got news for you people. It's no longers just Warren Buffet saying "tax me! I'm good for it" to create jobs in America.

These promonent BILLIONAIRES are also saying "TAX ME! We want to create jobs IN AMERICA because the People want...NEED to work!" Watch these video interviews given by Barbara Walters on ABC's "20/20" of BILLIONAIRES who are saying "TAX ME! CREATE JOBS IN AMERICA!" Even they agree with the Occupiers need to put America back to work!!

Again, the Occupy Movement IS NOT anti-capitalism. It IS anti-corruption. The People just want a job and for AMERICA to get back to work!!!

video no worky for me....says "clip not found"

as to the "tax me because people need work"..well, it's largely a line of bull.
how about instead of taxing you in order for the government to say they will create jobs... just go ahead and create jobs on your own without the inefficient middleman.
 
It's very relevant. If all these billionaires, that belief they don't pay enough taxes, would voluntarily pay more taxes, perhaps we could just leave the tax rates the way they are. If it's actually about revenue vice wealth redistribution, that is.

The problem with your way of thinking is you believe that every wealthy individual believes as you do, that they'll all write that tax check. Not all will and even if they do, some will be more or less generous than the next. Of course, it is their choice, but we do live in a capitalist society. As such, if one can get away with paying little in taxes - whether rich or poor - they'll do what they can to avoid doing so. But here's the rub where the influence of the wealthy comes into play: LOBBYIST!

When they are portrayed (or exposed) to helping to shape tax policy to such a degree where only those at the top see the biggest tax gains so much so that so much wealth is concentrated at the top, income accumulation becomes too lopsided. That's where we are today in our economic/free market/capitalistic system. What these billionaires are saying is "make money not for the sake of making money, but because you're doing things you're passionate about. Share your success with others; mentor. But above all do give back to those who helped you get to where you are. And if you truly believe in America, then do what you must do to keep America strong and that includes creating jobs right here at home." These people get it! They recognize that there is an income disparity in this country, but they also recognize that there can be something in it for them if they advocate a more balanced approach to our nation's drive for more economic prosperity for all who seek it.
 
video no worky for me....says "clip not found"

as to the "tax me because people need work"..well, it's largely a line of bull.
how about instead of taxing you in order for the government to say they will create jobs... just go ahead and create jobs on your own without the inefficient middleman.

Try doing a search for "ABC 20/20 billionaires" and I'm sure you'll find the clips. Or click on the videos that should appear in the video links on the page.

Now, I agree that these wealthy individuals could just go out and become venture capitalist or write a check to pay more taxes, but in recent years that's not exactly how it works in this country anymore. Perhaps these wealthy individuals should go back to doing just that. I argued with the auto bailouts came about that had wealthy individuals gotten together to save Saturn - the only GM auto manufacturer that was making the types of cars people wanted to buy - maybe that company could have been saved. We're starting to see these types of ventures popping up, but we need more entrepreneures out there to be willing to take these such risks. Trade policy as well as changes in the new patent laws will help provide those investment venues the country needs.
 
No, there's just a law saying that the IRS has to take exactly what you owe, no more and no less. So no, no one is actually able to increase their taxes at will.

Gifts to the United States Government

How do I make a contribution to the U.S. government?

Citizens who wish to make a general donation to the U.S. government may send contributions to a specific account called "Gifts to the United States." This account was established in 1843 to accept gifts, such as bequests, from individuals wishing to express their patriotism to the United States. Money deposited into this account is for general use by the federal government and can be available for budget needs. These contributions are considered an unconditional gift to the government. Financial gifts can be made by check or money order payable to the United States Treasury and mailed to the address below.

Gifts to the United States
U.S. Department of the Treasury
Credit Accounting Branch
3700 East-West Highway, Room 622D
Hyattsville, MD 20782

Gifts to the United States Government: Questions and Answers: Financial Management Service

the fact of the matter , billionaires say they want to be taxed higher because it forces other billionaires to be taxed higher.... not because they actually want to pay more themselves.

they can give every red cent they have to the US government right now, if they want to.... but they can't force others to do the same unless they get the tax code changed.


personally, i'll never know what it's like ot be a billionaire.... not that i'll never have the capacity or ability to be a billionaire, but i won't let myself become one... i'm perfectly happy with the term "millionaire"... I keep "enough" for me and mine ... the rest is given away.
I would never be a warren buffet.... a multi billionaire who still takes a salary and keeps hoarding wealth is a person I don't ever want to become... those folks sicken me.
 
Back
Top Bottom