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Thread: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Your premise -- that Buffett is not willing to do it -- is false. Buffett is lobbying for a change that would apply to him. In other words, he is willing to do it so long as it's a systemic change.
    Right, he is willing to do it so long as everyone else has to as well. How very 3rd grade of him. Again, he would have my support if he put his money where his mouth is. Have him start paying the taxes he wants his countrymen to pay, before FORCING them to do so, and I promise you, he would get a LOT more support for his cause, because he would prove himself to be genuine.

    You are making the weak argument that conservatives always make in these cases: that there should be no collective action, when collective action is required, because person X hasn't volunteered by himself.
    When person X is the person trying to MANDATE that collective action, I absolutely expect them to participate, and when it's something like this, I absolutely expect them to LEAD THE WAY.
    If someone is trying to convince the town that 100,000 sandbags need to be laid down to hold back the river, it's senseless to criticize that man because he hasn't already laid down 20 or 30 sandbags himself.
    When someone is trying to force a select few members of the town to start laying down 100,000 sandbags, without actually offering to jump in first, what does it look like? Have we totally forgotten what good leadership is, in this country? Sometimes, to get people to follow you, you have to jump into the fray.

    Buffet is not. Buffet is only willing to jump in, so long as everyone else has a guy with a gun to their backs, pushing them in as well. How very noble of the man.


    So, for the record, you have not yet answered my question.

    If someone doesn't want to do it by choice, why then, would they argue to do it by force? It's a simple question. It has a simple answer. I just think none of you want to hear it.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Right, he is willing to do it so long as everyone else has to as well. How very 3rd grade of him. Again, he would have my support if he put his money where his mouth is. Have him start paying the taxes he wants his countrymen to pay, before FORCING them to do so, and I promise you, he would get a LOT more support for his cause, because he would prove himself to be genuine.

    When person X is the person trying to MANDATE that collective action, I absolutely expect them to participate, and when it's something like this, I absolutely expect them to LEAD THE WAY.
    When someone is trying to force a select few members of the town to start laying down 100,000 sandbags, without actually offering to jump in first, what does it look like? Have we totally forgotten what good leadership is, in this country? Sometimes, to get people to follow you, you have to jump into the fray.

    Buffet is not. Buffet is only willing to jump in, so long as everyone else has a guy with a gun to their backs, pushing them in as well. How very noble of the man.


    So, for the record, you have not yet answered my question.

    If someone doesn't want to do it by choice, why then, would they argue to do it by force? It's a simple question. It has a simple answer. I just think none of you want to hear it.
    Again, you start with a false premise. He isn't asking everyone else to start first. He is saying that everyone needs to pitch in together, at the same time. He is leading by example by speaking out publicly and advocating for change. That's how a democracy works. If you are lobbying for a new highway interchange you don't go out with a pick and shovel and start building it yourself.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, you start with a false premise. He isn't asking everyone else to start first. He is saying that everyone needs to pitch in together, at the same time. He is leading by example by speaking out publicly and advocating for change. That's how a democracy works. If you are lobbying for a new highway interchange you don't go out with a pick and shovel and start building it yourself.
    A highway is public property, so you can only affect change to it without the consent of the people that own it, the public. Failed analogy, because there is NO RULE at all against him giving more in taxes.

    Does he have to? No. But he'll sure as hell garner more support by doing so. He has the ability to put his money where his mouth is, but is NOT, at least, not until everyone else HAS to, as well. So, I'll ask again.

    If someone doesn't want to do it by choice, why then, would they argue to do it by force?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Nitpicking the analogy.... I could come up with a closer one, but not necessary.

    Here's the key:

    If someone doesn't want to do it by choice, why then, would they argue to do it by force?
    The reason it's argued that it should be done by force is precisely that most people won't do it by choice. How many people do you think would pay taxes if it was 100% voluntary?

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, because Thomas Jefferson was an infamous fascist....



    They sound absolutely militant authoritarian......


    j-mac
    Are you serious? You read a mission statement which mentions Jefferson and suddenly that is what they are all about? Incredible. This kidnapping of Jefferson fits the MO

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
    If you really are a patriotic American who does NOT want to see a type of fascism come to our land, you should invest the time and read this

    http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-27-11 at 01:05 PM.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    When Bush faced increasing unemployment from a recession that he inherited from Clinton, and the effects of 9/11 exacerbated, those gains cuts spurred the lowest unemployment that this country has seen at 4.5%. Now I am sure you'll give me twisted figures to deny this fact. But I don't expect honesty.


    j-mac
    When are conservatives going to accept the truth. Bush did not inherit a recession from Clinton. The recession started on Bush's term. It would be fair to say that Bush didn't cause the recession of 2001, but to say that he inherited it from Clinton is pure BS. If the recession had started during Clinton's term, you would be truthful in saying that, but it didn't. Now, Obama, did indeed inherit a recession from Bush, yet Republican/conservatives are always eager to blame Obama for the sorry state of the economy that Bush handed him. Notice that the expansion lasted 10 years - all during Clinton's term.


    November 26, 2001
    This report is also available as a PDF file.The NBER's Business Cycle Dating Committee has determined that a peak in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in March 2001. A peak marks the end of an expansion and the beginning of a recession. The determination of a peak date in March is thus a determination that the expansion that began in March 1991 ended in March 2001 and a recession began. The expansion lasted exactly 10 years, the longest in the NBER's chronology

    The Business-Cycle Peak of March 2001


    The NBER said Monday that the recession which began in December 2007 ended in June 2009, which marked the beginning of an expansion. The announcement rules out the possibility of a so-called “double-dip” recession, because any new downturn would be seen as a brand new recession.
    ‘Great Recession’ over, research group says - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com













    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    No it's better to start two wars borrow money to pay for them that the taxpayer will have to repay with interest rather then help the poor of this country is that what you are saying?
    I'm asking you if you think Presidents set the tax rates.

    Listen to the GOP debates lately?
    No.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, you start with a false premise. He isn't asking everyone else to start first. He is saying that everyone needs to pitch in together, at the same time. He is leading by example by speaking out publicly and advocating for change.
    That's not what "leading by example" is. Leading by example means leading with your actions. And for the record one more time:

    Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002

    If I say "people should grow as much of their own food as possible," and I don't grow any of my own food, am I leading by example by expressing that opinion?


    It amazes me that, at a time when the resentment toward the very rich has perhaps never been higher, one extremely rich guy can come out and say, with his hands in the air, "hey, I support higher taxes" and immediately the left wing believes him and is thankful for his spirit of generosity and can't see through the BS that this is a self-preserving PR move.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 11-27-11 at 05:09 PM.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Are you serious? You read a mission statement which mentions Jefferson and suddenly that is what they are all about? Incredible. This kidnapping of Jefferson fits the MO



    If you really are a patriotic American who does NOT want to see a type of fascism come to our land, you should invest the time and read this

    ALEC Exposed - Alec Exposed
    Thanks for the link - I wonder why ALEC hasn't been exposed more avidly in the news? It's sort of obvious that corporations have had a huge control over our laws, but this is just insane!



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's not what "leading by example" is. Leading by example means leading with your actions. And for the record one more time:

    Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002
    That's a sorry example, especially since they are going to pay them. So your suggestion is that if you can get away with not paying taxes because others don't, it's okay (although the article doesn't claim that they are not going to pay it, just that they are behind)? And, also, your suggestion is for people that see the unfairness of tax rates and voice their opinion should be willing to contribute more of their money to taxes, so others can continue to benefit from the unfairness?

    From your link:

    The company says it expects to "resolve all adjustments proposed by the US Internal Revenue Service" within the next year.




    If I say "people should grow as much of their own food as possible," and I don't grow any of my own food, am I leading by example by expressing that opinion?
    Buffett isn't suggesting that people volunteer more of their money to the IRS, he is suggesting that the tax rates are unfair to the middle-class. I'm sure that if they changed the tax rates Buffett will be more than willing to pay his share, as is Mark Cuban and others who have brought it up, so your comparison is FAIL.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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