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Thread: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

  1. #411
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Once again Cat, you hang your hat not on just someone that is wrong, but dismally so. Donald Luskin in the National Review had this to say about your liberal hero of economics...
    Once again J, you attack the messenger rather than providing evidence to refute the facts:

    "according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent—but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down. For those who don’t want to do the math, Krugman’s “middle-income families with children” were paying a combined burden of 18.4 percent by 1988, up from 17.7 percent in 1980. For these middle-class families, Reagan—who did reduce taxes overall—had actually raised their tax burden."


    What a dumb ass article this is from the Times....
    Thanks for your opinion, I will go with the experts they reference.

    "The study, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, also shows that tax rates for middle-income earners edged up in 2004, the most recent year for which data was available, while rates for people at the very top continued to decline.

    Based on an exhaustive analysis of tax records and census data, the study reinforced the sense that while Mr. Bush’s tax cuts reduced rates for people at every income level, they offered the biggest benefits by far to people at the very top — especially the top 1 percent of income earners."
    Last edited by Catawba; 11-19-11 at 02:03 AM.
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  2. #412
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    You lead by example. If you're not willing to do something unless everyone else is FORCED to do it, it's gonna be hard to make followers out of ANYONE. A good leader is the first one with the boots on the ground, as the saying goes. They need to get their boots on the ground...put their money, literally, where their mouth is, and maybe I'll take them at their word. They are trying to come off as being altruistic, but yet that are required that "everyone else do it to", before they, themselves bite the bullet. You'll forgive me if I think that seems a tad fishy.
    They are not asking anyone to do what they themselves are not willing to do. Patriotism is so rare today among the wealthy that many simply refuse to recognize it. I suppose that is to be forgiven.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Once again J, you attack the messenger rather than providing evidence to refute the facts:

    "according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent—but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down. For those who don’t want to do the math, Krugman’s “middle-income families with children” were paying a combined burden of 18.4 percent by 1988, up from 17.7 percent in 1980. For these middle-class families, Reagan—who did reduce taxes overall—had actually raised their tax burden."




    Thanks for your opinion, I will go with the experts they reference.

    "The study, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, also shows that tax rates for middle-income earners edged up in 2004, the most recent year for which data was available, while rates for people at the very top continued to decline.

    Based on an exhaustive analysis of tax records and census data, the study reinforced the sense that while Mr. Bush’s tax cuts reduced rates for people at every income level, they offered the biggest benefits by far to people at the very top — especially the top 1 percent of income earners."
    So let's get rid of the regressive payroll taxes and increase the rates accordingly. If we did this the tax code would be more progressive.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Answer this question...why would a group of rich men, who, largely, GOT rich by avoiding taxes, and helping OTHERS to avoid taxes for a nominal fee, want to all of a sudden have government step up it's tax game?
    Because they, like the majority of Americans understand that a consumer economy cannot prosper when too much wealth is concentrated at the top so that consumers do not have enough wealth to consume at the levels necessary to increase demand for production.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Answer this question...why would a group of rich men, who, largely, GOT rich by avoiding taxes, and helping OTHERS to avoid taxes for a nominal fee, want to all of a sudden have government step up it's tax game?
    I grew up in low income housing. My mom was on various welfare programs, though she'd never use the word welfare. To me, EIC, food stamps, section 8 housing, etc... it's all welfare. So I benefited by these programs. Am I not allowed to say we should eliminate the earned income credit? Would people respond telling me that you don't have to claim EIC therefore if I don't like it, just don't claim it? My own beliefs, I'd be more qualified than the common person to have an opinion on it, having seen the effects. Has Warren Buffet seen what the reduced taxes do, and what they don't do? Yes, I'd say he sure has.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    There are no sound reasons to jack up capital gains taxes merely to make the losers feel better.
    You beat your own strawman. You get a gold star counselor.

    the biggest amount of money supposedly lost from tax cuts were for the middle class.
    Over the last 30 years, the rich have had their total tax rate go down, and the middle class have had their total tax rate increase. Raising taxes on the consumer class who are already under water would only make the economy worse.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    So let's get rid of the regressive payroll taxes and increase the rates accordingly. If we did this the tax code would be more progressive.
    Raising the caps on FICA should suffice.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I'll tell you what is truly confounding, and that is that someone can come in here and tag themselves a "moderate", and proceed to regurgitate the most vile, insulting, and ill informed crap they can spew and not one person has a honest moment to say to themselves that maybe, just maybe they should start telling the truth, and start with their own lean.

    This post is reprehensible.

    j-mac
    What is reprehensible is for someone who has swallowed certain extremist policies and ideologies to criticize others because they are not an extremist like they are. Perhaps part of the problem here is your understanding - or lack of understanding - of what the term MODERATE - means.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-19-11 at 07:25 AM.
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They are not asking anyone to do what they themselves are not willing to do. Patriotism is so rare today among the wealthy that many simply refuse to recognize it. I suppose that is to be forgiven.
    Oh, so they have already willingly paid more in taxes than were due? Show me the link, or it didn't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because they, like the majority of Americans understand that a consumer economy cannot prosper when too much wealth is concentrated at the top so that consumers do not have enough wealth to consume at the levels necessary to increase demand for production.
    Economics is not a zero sum game. There is not a fixed amount of money to be made. The fact that there is a man who has amassed a trillion dollars does not, in any way, reduce my pay, or reduce my ability to make money.

    I believe you've been told this a couple times by now...so you are either obtuse, or you don't believe it, at which point, I invite you to check out these links.

    Economics is not a zero sum game | The Everyday Economist
    Zero-Sum

    The first is a simple overview, while the second involves a little bit of math.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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