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Thread: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    "Millionaires" are going to pay very little more in income tax if the Bush tax cuts go away. As it has been pointed out many times, a good portion of them make their money with capital gains, not income.

    Warren Buffet makes a little more than I (my wife and I combined) in income. Disregarding for a moment the tax breaks he will be able to take tax advantage of that i won't, who is going to get hit the hardest by ending the Bush tax cuts? The family making $100 K all in income or Buffet making millions upon millions with very little in income?

    No, the "rich" are playing you big time and you are gleefully singing along on the choruses.

    As Buffett and the other 200 millionaires have made so clear, the Bush tax cuts on capital gains and inheritance must also be eliminated. Those tax cuts together with the cuts to the top income tax rates over the last 30 years add up to trillions of dollars. Hardly chicken feed.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is absolutely factual, Reagan raised tax rates for the middle class and lowered tax rates for the top income class:

    "KRUGMAN: I’m referring to the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance.

    For many middle- and low-income families, this tax increase more than undid any gains from Mr. Reagan's income tax cuts. In 1980, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent—but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down.

    For those who don’t want to do the math, Krugman’s “middle-income families with children” were paying a combined burden of 18.4 percent by 1988, up from 17.7 percent in 1980. For these middle-class families, Reagan—who did reduce taxes overall—had actually raised their tax burden."
    Krugman offers a useful point, counteracting a decade of spinning

    This was followed by W. cutting taxes, but cut more for the wealthy than the middle class.

    "Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study."
    Tax Cuts Offer Most for Very Rich, Study Says - New York Times
    Once again Cat, you hang your hat not on just someone that is wrong, but dismally so. Donald Luskin in the National Review had this to say about your liberal hero of economics...

    "Most critiques of Krugman as a public intellectual begin with what is apparently an obligatory disclaimer, usually in the very first sentence — something to the effect that Krugman is a very accomplished and well-respected economist. Then comes the “But . . .” and the critique proceeds in earnest, often scathingly.

    But why concede this honor to Krugman? So what if he won the Nobel Prize? The real test of Krugman’s mettle as an economist is the accuracy of his economic forecasting. The fact is that, with about three decades of evidence now in, Krugman’s track record, to use a technical term favored by economists, sucks."

    Paul Krugman: The Prophet of Socialism - Donald Luskin - National Review Online

    Although Krugman goes through stats during the Reagan era selectively choosing time frames to bolster his underlying theme, and cherry picking his dates. Krugman's goal is socialism. And he makes no bones about it. Wanna see how he does this? Let's go back to the NRO article we see an example from 2003....

    "Concerning claims by the Bush administration for job creation as a result of its proposed tax cuts, Krugman wrote,

    Krugman: Let’s pretend that the Bush administration really thinks that its $726 billion tax-cut plan will create 1.4 million jobs. At what price would those jobs be created? . . . The average American worker earns only about $40,000 per year; why does the administration, even on its own estimates, need to offer $500,000 in tax cuts for each job created?

    Sounds sensible if you read it fast — and pretty damning of Bush’s plan — especially if you assume you don’t have to question Krugman’s claims, since these words were written by a Princeton economist on the pages of the New York Times. But now: Stop, think, and question. That $726 billion number came from a report prepared by Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers. The estimate of 1.4 million jobs created was just for the first single year of the tax cuts, 2004. Yet the $726 billion price tag was for ten years. In other words, Krugman was pushing the entire ten-year cost of the tax cut onto a single year of jobs creation."

    Now the question Cat, do you have anyone credible on the economic impact?

    This was followed by W. cutting taxes, but cut more for the wealthy than the middle class.

    "Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study."
    Tax Cuts Offer Most for Very Rich, Study Says - New York Times
    What a dumb ass article this is from the Times....We know that the seeds of class warfare have been long and deep from this hack biased outlet, but in their own article they can't get away from the facts...

    "The top 1 percent of income earners paid about 36.7 percent of federal income taxes and 25.3 percent of all federal taxes in 2004. The top 20 percent of income earners paid 67.1 percent of all federal taxes, up from 66.1 percent in 2000, according to the budget office.

    By contrast, families in the bottom 40 percent of income earners, those with incomes below $36,300, typically paid no federal income tax and received money back from the government.
    That so-called negative income tax stemmed mainly from the earned-income tax credit, a program that benefits low-income parents who are employed."

    Welfare at its sneakiest....

    Wealth has been getting more and more concentrated at the top over the last 3 decades. Most of us have noticed the pattern. Have you notice the 20 or so polls since January where a majority of Americans think the tax breaks for the rich should be eliminated? Have you noticed people protesting in the streets?
    Is that really a surprise Cat? Ask each individual if you think their own tax should be raised and they will tell you 'No, they pay enough'.... But flip that question to do you think that taxes on "the rich" should be raised and resounding "Hell Yeah" will be the come back...Just another case of raise the other guy, but not mine.

    Look, this narrative that the rich are getting richer is just plain wrong. Let's take a look at all socio-economic levels for the decades you want us to focus on and even at the lower levels of that, I think you'd find that the poor in this country has a standard of living that is greater than in decades past. And one that the world looks at as not poor at all.

    Trickle down economics has been the policy the GOP has promoted for the last 30 years, and still promotes to this day, despite its failure! It worked well for those at the top but didn't trickle down to the middle class.
    Yeah? well how is this class warfare working out for us? Business doesn't know what they'll be slapped with in terms of taxation, and regulation so they are on the sidelines squirreling their money away and not hiring....At least with 'supply side economics' created the greatest boom in hiring that lasted some 20 years...Socialism fails.

    A third of the 47% are seniors, the remainder don't make enough money to pay a great deal in taxes. If you want them to pay more taxes, they will need to be paid a living wage for full time work, which most conservatives seemed to be opposed to.

    Living wage is a unicorn that will never be the realm of normal thinking, or reality. You want to talk about the gap in what American goods cost as compared to our competitors across the world and wage disparity is one factor that would only get worse if you start increasing a minimum wage standard that already kills jobs.

    You need to study history. Our tax system is now less progressive than it was under Republican presidents Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford.
    History is left to historians, and facts are facts. We have a progressive tax system in this country that has only served to stoke class warfare, jealousy, and division like the pap you rattle off in here Cat. If you want a true look at history, then rather than cherry pick items, and dates to fit your narrative of what happened like Krugman does, you have be honest about it. Which I don't hold much hope for. I am for a flatter, fairer tax system that leaves everyone with skin in the game to quote Biden. Funny how liberal fairness picks winners and losers.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As Buffett and the other 200 millionaires have made so clear, the Bush tax cuts on capital gains and inheritance must also be eliminated. Those tax cuts together with the cuts to the top income tax rates over the last 30 years add up to trillions of dollars. Hardly chicken feed.
    Buffet and those others are free to send it in, there is a box to check right now on tax returns that allow you to pay more.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This part, although a good sound byte, is not factual. For instance my personal bracket covering the median income levels of this country would see a projected $3700.00 rise in my real tax with just the failure to keep the current tax rates in place.
    According to 2010 US Census data, the median income level in this country was $49,445. The President has called for the Bush tax cuts to expire on the wealthiest Americans. I've heard two different thresholds being tossed around: 1) those with a net income over $250,000, and 2) those with a net income of over $1 million. Either way, those whose income is at the median income level - an income level you said you fit well into - would NOT be affected if the Bush tax cuts are "modified" accordingly. Therefore, your projected $3,700 figure is bogus because you wrongfully calculate that ALL of the Bush tax cuts would expire and that has NOT been what the President nor the Democrat party has been proposing.

    The rest of your arguments from post #398 can be easily explained as follows:

    - I wouldn't say there's been a concentration of wealth among the top income earners since the Great Depression, but this has been the case since the mid-80's as there is no despute today that the top 1% of Americans pay 53% of federal income taxes.

    - The phrase "trickle-down economics" wasn't coined by liberals. It was coined by this conservative journalist who died in 1995. Jude Wanniski, 69, Journalist Who Coined the Term 'Supply-Side Economics,' Dies - New York Times

    - There are re-training programs out there for the long-term unemployed specifically for those whose jobs have phased out because their skills are no longer relevent to current industry requirements. Every hear of the WIA? Here's a clue: It's not an abbreviation for some union or charitable organization. As far as the argument against those who are remaining "on the dole" and "sucking up your tax dollars," I've said it before and I'll say it again COMPLAIN TO YOUR STATE LEGISTLATURE TO ENACT WELFARE REFORM IN YOUR STATE! Don't complain about the federal government where welfare reform is concerned because both sides, especially Republicans, have lauded federal welfare reform measures that took place under former President Clinton. You have a problem with welfare as it's presently structured, managed or administrated? COMPLAIN TO YOUR STATE!!

    - Economic class envy only occurs when it becomes accutely apparent that the middle-class is shrinking, the poor are getting poorer and the rich getting richer. Conservatives speak of "equal opportunity" all the time, but I fail to see how an individual who lives in a disadvantaged area can hope to get ahead when their education system is failing them, when manufacturing jobs disappear, when incomes/wages have remained flat for decades, when the minimum wage remains at a level that does not provide for even a single individual to live above the poverty level, and when the only way for an individual to become aware of wealth opportunities is for them to either: a) have access to such information, b) know someone who shows a willingness to take them under their wing and train them, c) an entity (i.e., bank, venture capitalist or other financier) to provide capital to such a "credit risk" in order for him or her to realize their "opportunity" when it does come along, or d) all of the above. Knowledge primarily through education is the key that unlocks a great many doors for people to realize their economic dreams. But if you don't have access to the right information and you aren't given the opportunity to take risks in order to realize your dreams, how do you ever expect those who "live off the dole" to ever give off the dole? It's foolishness to think any other way! You speak of people groveling in the streets. There's a reason for that - lack of knowledge and economic opportunity! I'm not saying the fed should provide such, but the private sector (corporate America) could do the country a great service by forming more mentoring programs for the poor/disadvantaged.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 11-18-11 at 12:14 PM.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    The way I see this is that Buffet, and others, are exploiting loop holes in the tax system and gloating about it.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because you think more tax revenue from 200 millionaires = more tax revenue from 6 million millionaires????
    You lead by example. If you're not willing to do something unless everyone else is FORCED to do it, it's gonna be hard to make followers out of ANYONE. A good leader is the first one with the boots on the ground, as the saying goes. They need to get their boots on the ground...put their money, literally, where their mouth is, and maybe I'll take them at their word. They are trying to come off as being altruistic, but yet that are required that "everyone else do it to", before they, themselves bite the bullet. You'll forgive me if I think that seems a tad fishy.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As Buffett and the other 200 millionaires have made so clear, the Bush tax cuts on capital gains and inheritance must also be eliminated. Those tax cuts together with the cuts to the top income tax rates over the last 30 years add up to trillions of dollars. Hardly chicken feed.
    Answer this question...why would a group of rich men, who, largely, GOT rich by avoiding taxes, and helping OTHERS to avoid taxes for a nominal fee, want to all of a sudden have government step up it's tax game?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As Buffett and the other 200 millionaires have made so clear, the Bush tax cuts on capital gains and inheritance must also be eliminated. Those tax cuts together with the cuts to the top income tax rates over the last 30 years add up to trillions of dollars. Hardly chicken feed.
    There are no sound reasons to jack up capital gains taxes merely to make the losers feel better. the biggest amount of money supposedly lost from tax cuts were for the middle class



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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    There are no sound reasons to jack up capital gains taxes merely to make the losers feel better. the biggest amount of money supposedly lost from tax cuts were for the middle class
    so you're saying people who don't have capital gains are losers?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    so you're saying people who don't have capital gains are losers?
    Are you not someone that gets upset when someone does that to what you say?


    J-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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