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Thread: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

  1. #251
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    If you add the word 'earned' as in 'with enough EARNED income to be consumers' I will agree.
    Of course, jobs are much preferred to welfare.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    That's outrageous. What the **** do you think minority rights are in general?
    They certainly do not include owning 80% of the country.

    The majority is HARMED by me being forced to pay 35%-40% in taxes, far more in $$ than some pay in a life-time? I don't know how some of you guys manage to get food to your mouths when you then make claims like that.
    I agree we should reverse the trend over the last 30 years where taxes were reduced for the top 1% and raised for the middle class.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #253
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They certainly do not include owning 80% of the country.
    Nor do rights exclude such a thing. Our rights don't guarantee equal ownership, nor should they. Our rights are process-focused, not outcome-focused. This is where we diverge.

    I can agree that vast wealth and income disparities pose problems. Really, I can. Political instability mainly. Marx was right about this, but I'd like to not have to prove him right about the rest of history too. Specifically, I believe the market needs to disempower the rich, not the government (via taxes). The government is so deeply penetrated by corporations that the former cannot be trusted to govern the latter. The market has to fix it. In other words, shoppers. And not just with protests, but with their wallets too. We do it to single companies every once in a blue moon. Look at Netflix, jacking its prices way up and then paying for it oh so dearly. It would have to be grassroots revolutionary, because the alternative guarantees the status quo, where Goldman Sachs guards the Treasury, where Biotech staffs the FDA and USDA, where Wall St. staffs the SEC and advises the President, and where Big Business controls Congress, and so on and so forth. By asking government to tax the rich you're asking the very same ***holes to stop being ***holes.

    I agree we should reverse the trend over the last 30 years where taxes were reduced for the top 1% and raised for the middle class.
    The top 1% is 3 million citizens. The richest of every 100 of us in the country. That's really quite a massive amount of people. There aren't 3 million uber-rich CEOs and gazillionaire hedge fund managers. The people we're really foamy at the mouth about are actually not very many people at all, running not very many banks and corporations at all. One percent seems like a room full of gazillionaires, but it's not. It's 3 MILLION people. And "just making them pay more" for the same basic services based upon the size of their bank accounts is hard to justify, particularly when its budgetary benefits are so questionable. And with most of the taxpayer burden lately being retrospective (quantitative easing) and prospective (deep deficit spending), WTF do income taxes really matter anyway?

    If we want to give the middle and lower classes a break, we should not only riot in the streets, but boycott all large corporate campaign donors across the country when Congress passes a budget that is 20%, 30%, 40% or more IN THE RED. If we want to give the prudent small-time savers a break, we should not only riot in the streets, but also boycott ALL large corporate campaign donors when the Fed announces another round of quantitative easing or whatever other clever new name they've given to the practice of inflation. Taxes are effectively raised on the meek every time one of these two things happen. Say we get FedGov to hit the top 1% with an extra howevermany percent income tax.... well the old prudent savers and the unborn are already having their taxes jacked up by an order of magnitude greater each time they deficit spend and quantitatively ease. We're focusing on small potatoes and being quite whiny about the rich's refusal to punish themselves to try to accomplish a task We the People must take on ourselves.

    Of course, boycotting all major corporations is very inconvenient for us in our personal lives. Can we handle personal inconvenience for the sake of our country? Or are we gonna keep bleating for someone ELSE to do our dirty work?

    /rant off.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 11-02-11 at 10:55 PM.

  4. #254
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They certainly do not include owning 80% of the country.



    I agree we should reverse the trend over the last 30 years where taxes were reduced for the top 1% and raised for the middle class.
    one wonders how the top 1 percent pay a higher share of the federal income tax burden now than at any time in the last 70 years



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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Eliminating the temporary tax breaks for the rich is not oppression, it is justice and smart economics. Tell me how the rich minority was oppressed in the 90's before the tax breaks were given to them?

    How were the rich oppressed (even when their effective tax rates on all income was twice what it is now) in the half century between the 30's and the 80's when we had low debt and steady growth of the economy and the strongest middle class in the history of the US?
    It doesn't make good economics if the idea is to make excuses for ever increased spending.

  6. #256
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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Nor do rights exclude such a thing. Our rights don't guarantee equal ownership, nor should they. Our rights are process-focused, not outcome-focused. This is where we diverge.

    I can agree that vast wealth and income disparities pose problems. Really, I can. Political instability mainly. Marx was right about this, but I'd like to not have to prove him right about the rest of history too. Specifically, I believe the market needs to disempower the rich, not the government (via taxes). The government is so deeply penetrated by corporations that the former cannot be trusted to govern the latter. The market has to fix it. In other words, shoppers. And not just with protests, but with their wallets too. We do it to single companies every once in a blue moon. Look at Netflix, jacking its prices way up and then paying for it oh so dearly. It would have to be grassroots revolutionary, because the alternative guarantees the status quo, where Goldman Sachs guards the Treasury, where Biotech staffs the FDA and USDA, where Wall St. staffs the SEC and advises the President, and where Big Business controls Congress, and so on and so forth. By asking government to tax the rich you're asking the very same ***holes to stop being ***holes.
    We tried this approach for the last 30 years, it hasn't worked.



    The top 1% is 3 million citizens. The richest of every 100 of us in the country. That's really quite a massive amount of people. There aren't 3 million uber-rich CEOs and gazillionaire hedge fund managers. The people we're really foamy at the mouth about are actually not very many people at all, running not very many banks and corporations at all. One percent seems like a room full of gazillionaires, but it's not. It's 3 MILLION people. And "just making them pay more" for the same basic services based upon the size of their bank accounts is hard to justify, particularly when its budgetary benefits are so questionable. And with most of the taxpayer burden lately being retrospective (quantitative easing) and prospective (deep deficit spending), WTF do income taxes really matter anyway?
    Income taxes are how we pay our bills. Over the last 30 years, the middle class tax rates have gone up while the the tax rates for the rich have been lowered.

    If we want to give the middle and lower classes a break, we should not only riot in the streets, but boycott all large corporate campaign donors across the country when Congress passes a budget that is 20%, 30%, 40% or more IN THE RED. If we want to give the prudent small-time savers a break, we should not only riot in the streets, but also boycott ALL large corporate campaign donors when the Fed announces another round of quantitative easing or whatever other clever new name they've given to the practice of inflation. Taxes are effectively raised on the meek every time one of these two things happen. Say we get FedGov to hit the top 1% with an extra howevermany percent income tax.... well the old prudent savers and the unborn are already having their taxes jacked up by an order of magnitude greater each time they deficit spend and quantitatively ease. We're focusing on small potatoes and being quite whiny about the rich's refusal to punish themselves to try to accomplish a task We the People must take on ourselves.

    Of course, boycotting all major corporations is very inconvenient for us in our personal lives. Can we handle personal inconvenience for the sake of our country? Or are we gonna keep bleating for someone ELSE to do our dirty work?

    /rant off.
    Boycotts have their place but cannot take the place of sound policies that served us so well during the most stable growth in history combined with the strongest middle class. Progressive taxation and separating commercial banking from investment banking need to be our top priorities.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    one wonders how the top 1 percent pay a higher share of the federal income tax burden now than at any time in the last 70 years
    Its not exactly a mystery. As more wealth is concentrated at the top, even with tax rates that have been lowered over the last 3 decades for the rich, there is less money at the bottom to pay taxes on. It is the end result of trickle down economics. Bon appetit!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    It doesn't make good economics if the idea is to make excuses for ever increased spending.
    Correct, we also need to cut spending.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not exactly a mystery. As more wealth is concentrated at the top, even with tax rates that have been lowered over the last 3 decades for the rich, there is less money at the bottom to pay taxes on. It is the end result of trickle down economics. Bon appetit!
    What kills tax revenue more than anything else, is when the government destroys the job market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What kills tax revenue more than anything else, is when the government destroys the job market.
    Yes the Democrats have put up a bill to eliminate the tax breaks for companies outsourcing jobs overseas and guess who has blocked it?

    Last year the GOP said we had to continue to the tax breaks for the rich to create jobs. Where are those jobs?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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