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Thread: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If you really want to know, I'd suggest you ask Boeing, Rytheon, Lockhead/Martin and other such companies that accepts federal contracts for their federal tax records and see if they either paid any federal taxes or if they receive a federal tax refund. It's the only way to be sure.

    I'm just saying...
    Sure, the government gives someone like Lockhead 3 billion for a new military aircraft in which they get back a small percentage in return. They have to take this 3 billion from someone else that would either send it elsewhere or invest it themselves.

    They then take this aircraft and crash it in the middle east in a war costing billions more.

    All that said very few argue against funding the military. It's one of the few legitimate things the government does. It's a huge drain though, not an income generator.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And since Clinton didn't raise taxes nor initiate any significant changes in tax policy that I'm aware of...
    As I've often said, I can admit when I'm wrong. Just found this blog post on Clinton's tax policy. Give it a read.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Sure, the government gives someone like Lockhead 3 billion for a new military aircraft in which they get back a small percentage in return. They have to take this 3 billion from someone else that would either send it elsewhere or invest it themselves.

    They then take this aircraft and crash it in the middle east in a war costing billions more.

    All that said very few argue against funding the military. It's one of the few legitimate things the government does. It's a huge drain though, not an income generator.
    You, my friend, get a for a very insightful post that goes outside the box of traditional thinking. Well played, sir.

    But, where most people would say "put the brakes on military spending" I say "be careful". The #1 reason no nation will dare come at us directly - military -v- military - is because they know we have superior fire power. Yes, there is alot of wasteful spending within our military, but you have to be careful not to cut too much into our nation's ability to make military hardware, i.e., ships, subs, planes, weapons, survellience equipment, combat/SpecOps training, etc. I'm in that camp that says "use a scalpe, not a chainsaw" where defense spending is concerned.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You, my friend, get a for a very insightful post that goes outside the box of traditional thinking. Well played, sir.

    But, where most people would say "put the brakes on military spending" I say "be careful". The #1 reason no nation will dare come at us directly - military -v- military - is because they know we have superior fire power. Yes, there is alot of wasteful spending within our military, but you have to be careful not to cut too much into our nation's ability to make military hardware, i.e., ships, subs, planes, weapons, survellience equipment, combat/SpecOps training, etc. I'm in that camp that says "use a scalpe, not a chainsaw" where defense spending is concerned.
    I believe we can cut a good portion out of the military if we simply seriously addressed waste and fraud. I do not want to make the military weak either. I want other countries to know that if they mess with us we will return it many times over.

    That said we need to hold accountable those who overlook fraud and waste. It seems to me that many will justify it as just the way it works. They need removed and replaced.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    10 Reasons to Eliminate the Tax Break for Capital Gains - Blog of the Century

    Would this really inject more money into the economy? Keep in mind that attracting businesses is very competitive and they are free to go elsewhere. This is just what many are doing. Overtaxing businesses or forcing them to follow unrealistic regulations only discourages people from the free enterprise system and, if they are truly entrepreneurial, they will likely go elsewhere.

    A 5% surtax on millionaire's as proposed by Senate Democrats would generate an additional $447 billion dollars.
    Senate Democrats Propose Millionaire Surtax

    Another $35 billion in tax subsidies to oil companies.
    Turn Off the Oil Subsidy Spigot

    And $20 billion more in direct subsidy payments to agriculture.
    Agricultural subsidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A quick tally shows you are already up to about $540 billion a year in additional revenues, without placing further hardship on the working class.

    I agree that we need to make big spending cuts. For the last decade, we have been spending almost as the rest of the world COMBINED on the military industrial complex. Also, we will eventually have to go with some type of UHC to lower health care costs as the rest of the industrialized world has done.
    There is every indication that the $540 billion raised from the private sector will only be used to increase the bureaucracy, or used as venture capital to assist Barrack Obama supporters. Had what happened with Solyndra happened at Haliburton or Enron, people would have gone to jail.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is every indication that the $540 billion raised from the private sector will only be used to increase the bureaucracy, or used as venture capital to assist Barrack Obama supporters. Had what happened with Solyndra happened at Haliburton or Enron, people would have gone to jail.
    People did go to jail over Enron (unless what you're really referring to is "people from within the government who approved the funding for such ventures"). To that, I can agree if it could be proven that there was wrong doing on the part of government officials.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    They say it because as BILLIONAIRES they know they'll never truly lose money. They have so much that even if you increase their taxes by 10% they'll still have more than enough money in profits to pay for it. Besides, they'll just find other business ventures to invest in to make still more money. If you listened to those billionaires in the interviews, you should have heard them say they want to reinvest their earnings right here in AMERICA on AMERICAN businesses that create products right here IN AMERICA! You and I both know that manufacturing has gone down in this country for years. As such, these wealthy individuals have little choice but to invest their money overseas. Doesn't it then make sense that if you want them to bring that money AND those jobs back here in the U.S., you have to create manufacturing jobs here IN AMERICA?

    As one of the supporters of the Occupy movement, I WANT the 1% to increase to %5...10%...20%....25%...50%. I want more Americans to become part of the wealth class. I do envy them, but in a good way. I think most of us would be lying if we said we didn't want their oppulance. My only beef is with those who act like those investment bankers in the book, "Too Big to Fail" who fought among themselves not about what was the right thing to do to preserve the properity of the nation, but rather they fought among themselves to retain or GAIN a larger piece of the economic pie and cared less about the fate of the nation. That's what I have a problem with. That's what the Occupy movement is trying to convey to all of America.

    Let's reverse this argument just for a second, however, and direct it at the poor. I don't blame all poor people for their economic situation. I know some who are poor not by their own choosing or their own doing. Some got into unforeseen accidents and have medical bills they can't afford. Some lost their jobs through no fault of their own. Some went from a two-income household to one primary bread winner; in some cases it was due to one spouse losing his/her job, in others, one wage earned left (divorce). These people I have no problem whatsoever lending a helping hand to. But those who take advantage of the entitlement system and are, in fact, lazy and don't want to work but instead purposely rely on WIC, TANF, Medicaid/SSDI - those people I do have a problem with. But make no mistake, there IS a difference between the two bottom extremes just as there is a difference between the two top extremes. Moreover, to think that laziness and addictive behavior only happens with certain demographics, i.e., Blacks, Hispanics or other minority groups alone, is just wrong! It happens with people across ALL racial divides.

    Once people start viewing things not from one extreme or the other, but seek a more middle-ground point of view, then and only then I believe will this nation beging to really change.
    The only way it could become the 50% is if we became a very homogeneous society with very few industries and virtually no growth. If we became the 5 or 10% that might work. Most of us have to work for someone rather than have someone work for us in order to employ large numbers of people. We need very wealthy people because wealth provides great incentive. If you put a cap on wealth, growth and innovation will slow down considerably. I agree we need to shift the balance a bit but you need to be more realistic.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    People did go to jail over Enron (unless what you're really referring to is "people from within the government who approved the funding for such ventures"). To that, I can agree if it could be proven that there was wrong doing on the part of government officials.
    It seems that the connections go right to the top.

    How a community organizer with no executive or business experience became the president of the United States, and a major venture capitalist with public money as well, will be debated for decades to come. I guess the Germans, Italians and Japanese frequently slap ther foreheads as well and ask, "What the hell were we thinking??"

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...STL_story.html

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    The only way it could become the 50% is if we became a very homogeneous society with very few industries and virtually no growth. If we became the 5 or 10% that might work. Most of us have to work for someone rather than have someone work for us in order to employ large numbers of people. We need very wealthy people because wealth provides great incentive. If you put a cap on wealth, growth and innovation will slow down considerably. I agree we need to shift the balance a bit but you need to be more realistic.
    I admit my 50% rant was rather extreme, but you do get my point. The wealth imbalance in this country has to change.

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    Re: ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That all sounds nice and looks good on paper, but what is the plan in the event that capital gains decrease, because the new taxes suddenly took the profit out of it and you end up with less tax revenue?
    Because, that has never happened in the history of the US, even when taxes were much higher than anything being proposed.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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