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Thread: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

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    Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement - CNN.com

    The chaotic scene unfolded with flash-bang grenades, rubber bullets and clouds of smoke. Canisters whizzed through the air amid deafening booms. Marine Lance Cpl. Scott Olsen went down.
    "Medic! Medic!" someone yelled.
    Olsen, 24, had seen his share of war in two tours of Iraq as a Marine. He was lucky, returning home physically unscathed.
    But Tuesday evening, near the corner of 14th Avenue and Broadway in Oakland, California, Olsen went down.
    The video images went viral: streams of crimson flowing down Olsen's head, his black T-shirt adorned with a white dove of peace, the war veteran carried to a hospital.
    And with that, the Occupy movement had a face.
    My opinion was that the police response to the OWS movement in Oakland was overly brutal and goes beyond what is permitted even in actual war zones, such as Iraq. There are more humane crowd control options available that the police have access to, which would also affirm the humanity of people that they may disagree with. The Oakland police have no excuse for their behavior.

    Putting that aside, this sort of thing, putting a face on a movement is the type of thing that galvanizes people and movements and puts them on a higher plateau. These sorts of movements, whether OWS, arab spring, or Tea Party are always emotional at their core and emotional images get messages across faster and more fluidly than words and reason ever can. It is sad that it came to this, but due to police actions, here we are.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My opinion was that the police response to the OWS movement in Oakland was overly brutal and goes beyond what is permitted even in actual war zones, such as Iraq.
    then I would suggest you go there, as your opinion is incorrect. If someone had thrown a bottle, rock, and small explosives at me when I was in Iraq, they would have been killed. If you run up to a patrol today with something unidentifiable in your hand and move to throw it at them, they will all turn en masse and ventilate you.

    furthermore, some smoke grenades pop off - and the signature of that "explosion" is much smaller than you would get from a flashbang. I notice the distinct lack of people incapacitated. My bet would be you got the right angle of the top of a smoke grenade, or one of the idiot protestors dropped or poorly threw their firecracker.

    There are more humane crowd control options available that the police have access to, which would also affirm the humanity of people that they may disagree with.
    fascinating. considering they were using non-lethal force in response to what technically falls under the definition of a deadly threat triggering the 7 Justifications of Deadly Force, I would be interested in hearing what you think the nicer kinder gentler reaction (vice tear gas) to being charged by a crowd hurling explosives (because that is what firecrackers are) would be. Rubber bullets and tear gas hurt - but mallets to the skull hurt much worse.

    The Oakland police have no excuse for their behavior.
    that's funny. I was kind of thinking the same thing about the criminals who were attacking them.

    Putting that aside, this sort of thing, putting a face on a movement is the type of thing that galvanizes people and movements and puts them on a higher plateau.
    this guy doesn't put anything on a higher plateau any more than all the vets in the Tea Party put that movement on a higher plateau. If you want to get into a "who do the vets support" chest-thumper, the OWS crowd will lose that in a landslide.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    this veteranb is becoming the face of the movement?
    yeah, I can totally see the correlation with being popped in the noggin at a protest with something ,and the unjust shenanigans of wall street.
    they'd be better served with continuing to utilize the "99%" sob stories as faces of the movement.

    it's exploitation of this guys veterans status , nothing more , nothing less.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    The problem with trying to make this vet the "face" of the movement is that he's not. I think it's exploitive too.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    The problem with trying to make this vet the "face" of the movement is that he's not. I think it's exploitive too.
    He, of his own free will went to the protests and took part in them, so yes, he is a face of the movement, even if doesn't fit the stereotype that many here would like to portray. That alone makes it not an exploitation. Don't forget that there is more than one social group in this movement.

    Personally, I wish it had never happened, the last thing we need is a martyr inflaming the passions of people, but I lay the blame for this on the police department as they could have dispersed the crowd less forcibly, even if it is within the rules of engagement, rules of engagement and wise judgement are two different things and they displayed a lack of the latter.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    He, of his own free will went to the protests and took part in them, so yes, he is a face of the movement, even if doesn't fit the stereotype that many here would like to portray. That alone makes it not an exploitation.
    given that they are trying to take groups of varying degrees of social acceptability and hide them under the honor that Americans feel towards his service, yes, in fact, it is exploitive.

    Personally, I wish it had never happened, the last thing we need is a martyr inflaming the passions of people, but I lay the blame for this on the police department as they could have dispersed the crowd less forcibly, even if it is within the rules of engagement, rules of engagement and wise judgement are two different things and they displayed a lack of the latter.
    And I would love for you to list out the things that you honestly think would have dispersed that crowd that were less harmful than a friggin smoke grenade. I' mean come on.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    given that they are trying to take groups of varying degrees of social acceptability and hide them under the honor that Americans feel towards his service, yes, in fact, it is exploitive.
    I still disagree, because again, it was this person's wish to be there. This one consideration is really the only thing that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And I would love for you to list out the things that you honestly think would have dispersed that crowd that were less harmful than a friggin smoke grenade. I' mean come on.
    You forget the rubber bullets and other types of force.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Anyone can claim to be an Iraq vet, how do we know for sure?

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Anyone can claim to be an Iraq vet, how do we know for sure?
    One would assume that the military keeps track of these things ...

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    then I would suggest you go there, as your opinion is incorrect. If someone had thrown a bottle, rock, and small explosives at me when I was in Iraq, they would have been killed. If you run up to a patrol today with something unidentifiable in your hand and move to throw it at them, they will all turn en masse and ventilate you.

    furthermore, some smoke grenades pop off - and the signature of that "explosion" is much smaller than you would get from a flashbang. I notice the distinct lack of people incapacitated. My bet would be you got the right angle of the top of a smoke grenade, or one of the idiot protestors dropped or poorly threw their firecracker.

    fascinating. considering they were using non-lethal force in response to what technically falls under the definition of a deadly threat triggering the 7 Justifications of Deadly Force, I would be interested in hearing what you think the nicer kinder gentler reaction (vice tear gas) to being charged by a crowd hurling explosives (because that is what firecrackers are) would be. Rubber bullets and tear gas hurt - but mallets to the skull hurt much worse.

    that's funny. I was kind of thinking the same thing about the criminals who were attacking them.

    this guy doesn't put anything on a higher plateau any more than all the vets in the Tea Party put that movement on a higher plateau. If you want to get into a "who do the vets support" chest-thumper, the OWS crowd will lose that in a landslide.


    Want to throw your lot in with OWS or Occupy Anyplace? That's your right and, some would say, your duty. But when you get painted with the same brush as the people behind you whoare throwing paint cans, fire crackers and rocks -- as you stand there with that dove on your t-shirt -- don't come cryin' to me.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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