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Thread: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

  1. #71
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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    [QUOTE=cpwill

    the other one of these sides is rejecting the rule of law. they are insisting that others should work for them. they appear to have never willingly sacrificed anything for anyone else in their entire life. they celebrate a "culture" built around lack of responsibility and parasitism off of the first group of people, who nonetheless are trying to protect them from the predators that are in the second groups' midst.


    who, exactly, represents civilization again?[/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    check it out dave, this guy is out there fighting for human freedom:

    I can not review the video. Telephone modem link. However, your quote indicted "they" as if to include all and you are wrong. I'm sure you'll find some slackers anywhere, especially among students, but this movement is obviously not the slackers and the unemployed. You have not substantiated the "they", many or more than one, or anyone or thing representative of the OWS groups. They seem to be average USA Americans usually of the 99% variety. The students have been sold a "bill of goods" that implied the education would lead to employment. A bad education, mind you, one geared to making them "worker bees" instead of job creating entrepreneurs.

  2. #72
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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman, in the OP View Post
    My opinion was that the police response to the OWS movement in Oakland was overly brutal and goes beyond what is permitted even in actual war zones, such as Iraq. [...]
    then I would suggest you go there, as your opinion is incorrect. If someone had thrown a bottle, rock, and small explosives at me when I was in Iraq, they would have been killed. If you run up to a patrol today with something unidentifiable in your hand and move to throw it at them, they will all turn en masse and ventilate you.
    And there is the face of the right wing movement. Comparing a sit-in with a war zone, primed to kill at the drop of a hat.
    he didn't bring up a comparison, the OP did. try to be fair, if that's possible.
    Upon review I can see your point, and I stand corrected.

    However, my point that the face of the hard core right wing, for decades now, has been excessive brutality, sometimes to the point of death, normally applied/advocated in a bigoted/discriminatory manner against individuals (Gitmo detainees, Muslims, blacks, Hispanics, and now OWS protestors) -- stands. To that effect, I quote further from the same post quoted above:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    fascinating. considering they were using non-lethal force in response to what technically falls under the definition of a deadly threat triggering the 7 Justifications of Deadly Force, I would be interested in hearing what you think the nicer kinder gentler reaction (vice tear gas) to being charged by a crowd hurling explosives (because that is what firecrackers are) would be. Rubber bullets and tear gas hurt - but mallets to the skull hurt much worse.
    Primed. Throw a firecracker (allegedly), take a bullet (the FMJ, not rubber, variety).

    Try to refrain from the personal attacks, if that's possible. It doesn't bother me, but it is a clear sign of a failed argument. Just trying to help...

  3. #73
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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Upon review I can see your point, and I stand corrected.

    However, my point that the face of the hard core right wing, for decades now, has been excessive brutality, sometimes to the point of death, normally applied/advocated in a bigoted/discriminatory manner against individuals (Gitmo detainees, Muslims, blacks, Hispanics, and now OWS protestors) -- stands. To that effect, I quote further from the same post quoted above:



    Primed. Throw a firecracker (allegedly), take a bullet (the FMJ, not rubber, variety).

    Try to refrain from the personal attacks, if that's possible. It doesn't bother me, but it is a clear sign of a failed argument. Just trying to help...
    it wasn't a personal attack, sorry if it sounded that way.

    but i dismiss your perspective of the "face" of far right wingers.... it's what you want to perceive, not objective reality.


    Cpwill's perspective is one of combat operations... and he is generally correct in that perspective.
    if he was conducting primarily civil disturbance operations, he would have a differing perspective .. primarily because of the inherent difference in tactics and methods employed.

    he is correct in that ,during combat operations, the military utilization of force is much more liberal ( not in the political way).. a throw rock can and does result in disproportional force employment ( that's a nice way of saying a round fired will be the response to a rock thrown)

  4. #74
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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement - CNN.com



    My opinion was that the police response to the OWS movement in Oakland was overly brutal and goes beyond what is permitted even in actual war zones, such as Iraq. There are more humane crowd control options available that the police have access to, which would also affirm the humanity of people that they may disagree with. The Oakland police have no excuse for their behavior.

    Putting that aside, this sort of thing, putting a face on a movement is the type of thing that galvanizes people and movements and puts them on a higher plateau. These sorts of movements, whether OWS, arab spring, or Tea Party are always emotional at their core and emotional images get messages across faster and more fluidly than words and reason ever can. It is sad that it came to this, but due to police actions, here we are.

    You're aware this guy started the "ihatetheMarinecorps.com" site, and is quoted as saying some sharply critical things about Israel as well? He may not be such a great "face" for the movement after all.
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-30-11 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Here's another face of the movement:



    This man and the above man have two completely different viewpoints. This isn't a cohesive group - it's a mish mash of several different ideas. There is no one face.
    Without viewing your lengthy videos (waste of time; a succinct typewritten point would have been the better approach, or at least a summary) I will note that ending the Fed seems to be a Libertarian idea, so using that as a point in your argument seems odd given your stated Libertarian lean.

    In any case, the OWS events have a very clear idea -- it's time for the filthy rich (Wall Street) to stop taking at the expense of everyone else. In short, they are saying enough greed already. Since that shakes the unfettered capitalists to their very core, we are seeing a violent response to the protesters' message.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're aware this guy started the "ihatetheMarinecorps.com" site, and is quoted as saying some sharply critical things about Israel as well? He may not be such a great "face" for the movement after all.
    it's not uncommon for young marines to "hate" the Corps... it's a time honored institution.
    in fact, I hated it a fair amount as a junior Marine myself.... life in the Corps , as a Private or Lance Corporal, really really sucks.

    there is an off-the-books-regulation that basically says " don't worry about your Marines b*tchin' about the Corps... start worrying when they stop b*tchin'."

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're aware this guy started the "ihatetheMarinecorps.com" site, and is quoted as saying some sharply critical things about Israel as well? He may not be such a great "face" for the movement after all.
    Well OWS isn't about foreign policy matters, so I am not sure the Israel thing is important. Besides, I am sharply critical of both Israel and Palestine for both country's pigheadedness since the 60s.

    I can't bring up the website so I don't know what is in it.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well OWS isn't about foreign policy matters, so I am not sure the Israel thing is important. Besides, I am sharply critical of both Israel and Palestine for both country's pigheadedness since the 60s.

    I can't bring up the website so I don't know what is in it.
    the site is no longer live... you have to use the wayback machine to view it

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla, replying to Karl View Post
    [...] i dismiss your perspective of the "face" of far right wingers.... it's what you want to perceive, not objective reality.
    The perspective is based upon reality, as I list several examples thereof in my prior post (#72). The right is the first to propose violence, and the last to defend it. That is simply not subject to dispute.



    This man died during interrogation at Abu Ghraib


    [Former Lt. Col., now Republican Congressman Allen] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head,[10] after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[10] At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[10]

    Allen West (politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    West is now a Tea Party hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla, replying to Karl View Post
    Cpwill's perspective is one of combat operations... and he is generally correct in that perspective.
    if he was conducting primarily civil disturbance operations, he would have a differing perspective .. primarily because of the inherent difference in tactics and methods employed.

    he is correct in that ,during combat operations, the military utilization of force is much more liberal ( not in the political way).. a throw rock can and does result in disproportional force employment ( that's a nice way of saying a round fired will be the response to a rock thrown)
    Normally I would suggest you reread his post, but since I've already reposted the pertinent part (again, post #72) I'll have to fall back on the 'lead a horse to water' adage and say that we're done.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the site is no longer live... you have to use the wayback machine to view it
    Ahh good idea, I had forgotten about that site.

    This website doesn't seem to be all that bad, just people complaining, everyone complains.

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