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Thread: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

  1. #21
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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Oh look, I posted something you did not want to hear and you get all emotional. Figures. Try debating with facts and intelligence.
    I just spent two weeks helping people in the Philippines and now I'm working Thailand. You may have heard about it in the news lately. I admit my sympathy for the bitches sipping starbucks as they complain about how it's BS that they have to fill out paperwork for free money is somewhat lacking.

    that being said, the point stands. to claim that these people have no choice but to break the law because that's the demand of a fundamental human right is laughable at best, and worrying that intelligent people would ever give it credence at worst.

    Then the swat teams should get new equipment.
    you apparently missed the part about the heart stoppages. smoke grenades are about as non-lethal as you get. hell, we throw them at ourselves during tactical maneuvering.

    however, if you would like to (say) fire all the teachers in America so that we can afford to equip each swat team with magic foam, i urge you to write your congressman. Until that day, I think I will not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    The simple fact is that this was handled badly by the police, who by their actions were willing to cause real physical harm
    the simple fact is that this was handled excellently by the police, who avoided causing physical harm as much as was humanly possible despite the fact that this sentiment was not shared by those who were attacking them.

    here you are bitching about smoke grenades and rubber bullets - i notice you seem to have no words for those who would hurl stones, bottles, and firecrackers and police.

    when they should have been better prepared and more disciplined given that their methods were going to get someone seriously hurt or killed at some point.
    I have stood on the other end of a riot defensive line, and you have no idea what you are talking about. these guys showed professional discipline. LACK of discipline would have been refusing orders to use non-lethal means and moving to take on the protestors with the same level of aggression that they were being shown. If they had moved to mow down the crowd with live rounds, that would have been lack of discipline. if there had been a police riot in return where they had moved into the crowd swinging batons and hurting as many people as they could in revenge for being attacked themeslves, that would have been a lack of discipline. shooting a smoke grenade in response to people trying to physically hurt you requires intense discipline.

    , this is what civilized people do.
    no. civilized people do not act like anarchist parasites. the people representing civilization in this story are the ones we have hired to defend us.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Both groups, but different aspect of it, why?
    negative. the second group is the one that destroys civilization. they are our own, (weak and whiny, mind you) vikings. determined and willing to use force to ensure that they can live off of the work of others.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    [QUOTE=cpwill

    the other one of these sides is rejecting the rule of law. they are insisting that others should work for them. they appear to have never willingly sacrificed anything for anyone else in their entire life. they celebrate a "culture" built around lack of responsibility and parasitism off of the first group of people, who nonetheless are trying to protect them from the predators that are in the second groups' midst.


    who, exactly, represents civilization again?[/QUOTE]



    I would like to see your link to prove that statement. You talk about BS! BS is where you find it. I've just showed you yours.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    check it out dave, this guy is out there fighting for human freedom:


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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    hey lookit that, there are jobs available for all of these young, healthy people demanding a bailout...

    ...Potato farmer Keith Smith saw most of his Hispanic workers leave after Alabama's tough immigration law took effect, so he hired Americans. It hasn't worked out: They show up late, work slower than seasoned farm hands and are ready to call it a day after lunch or by midafternoon. Some quit after a single day...

    In south Georgia, Connie Horner has heard just about every reason unemployed Americans don't want to work on her blueberry farm. It's hot, the hours are long, the pay isn't enough and it's just plain hard.

    "You can't find legal workers," Horner said. "Basically they last a day or two, literally."...

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    faint.gif I can't believe I'm going to agree with Cpwill , but this is not a basic human rights fight yet. However, if the current trend continues in income inequity and taxation, this will become about basic human rights in time.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement - CNN.com



    My opinion was that the police response to the OWS movement in Oakland was overly brutal and goes beyond what is permitted even in actual war zones, such as Iraq. There are more humane crowd control options available that the police have access to, which would also affirm the humanity of people that they may disagree with. The Oakland police have no excuse for their behavior.

    Putting that aside, this sort of thing, putting a face on a movement is the type of thing that galvanizes people and movements and puts them on a higher plateau. These sorts of movements, whether OWS, arab spring, or Tea Party are always emotional at their core and emotional images get messages across faster and more fluidly than words and reason ever can. It is sad that it came to this, but due to police actions, here we are.
    I have to disagree with the first point.
    Although one fortunate enough not to have experienced war firsthand, I've been to a simulation (you know what I mean) and the protestors have it light. At least they don't have to do situps with their arms around their friends all night, until 4:00 am
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    negative. the second group is the one that destroys civilization. they are our own, (weak and whiny, mind you) vikings. determined and willing to use force to ensure that they can live off of the work of others.
    Ok, now you are getting comical.

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    negative. the second group is the one that destroys civilization. they are our own, (weak and whiny, mind you) vikings. determined and willing to use force to ensure that they can live off of the work of others.
    OK. Come to the Bar, talk it over. What did you drink today?
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Injured Iraq veteran is face of Occupy movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I just spent two weeks helping people in the Philippines and now I'm working Thailand. You may have heard about it in the news lately. I admit my sympathy for the bitches sipping starbucks as they complain about how it's BS that they have to fill out paperwork for free money is somewhat lacking.

    that being said, the point stands. to claim that these people have no choice but to break the law because that's the demand of a fundamental human right is laughable at best, and worrying that intelligent people would ever give it credence at worst.
    I am sure the british said the same sorts of things 200 or so years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you apparently missed the part about the heart stoppages. smoke grenades are about as non-lethal as you get. hell, we throw them at ourselves during tactical maneuvering.

    however, if you would like to (say) fire all the teachers in America so that we can afford to equip each swat team with magic foam, i urge you to write your congressman. Until that day, I think I will not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
    And its the rubber bullets that I am worried about, the smoke grenade thing is unfortunate and non lethal, I agree, however, it should only only been smoke grenades and nothing more lethal. This is about the willingness to use certain types force on the part of the police not the exact incident.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the simple fact is that this was handled excellently by the police, who avoided causing physical harm as much as was humanly possible despite the fact that this sentiment was not shared by those who were attacking them.

    here you are bitching about smoke grenades and rubber bullets - i notice you seem to have no words for those who would hurl stones, bottles, and firecrackers and police.
    The police have access to armor which is why I see this as symmetrical.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    have stood on the other end of a riot defensive line, and you have no idea what you are talking about. these guys showed professional discipline. LACK of discipline would have been refusing orders to use non-lethal means and moving to take on the protestors with the same level of aggression that they were being shown. If they had moved to mow down the crowd with live rounds, that would have been lack of discipline. if there had been a police riot in return where they had moved into the crowd swinging batons and hurting as many people as they could in revenge for being attacked themeslves, that would have been a lack of discipline. shooting a smoke grenade in response to people trying to physically hurt you requires intense discipline.
    And crimes of passion are still prosecuted, being in the moment is no excuse for doing the wrong thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. civilized people do not act like anarchist parasites. the people representing civilization in this story are the ones we have hired to defend us.
    And these OWS people are not parasites even if you wish to depict them as such.

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