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Thread: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommittee’

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Most of you have no real understanding of the economy. And that includes basically everyone here saying that cuts are the answer.

    If we went with cuts, contrary to your asinine baseless beliefs, we WILL see another recession. The US is growing at barely 1%. You start reducing aggregate demand and the associated spending multipliers that stem from it and we are likely to see another recession. Growth is a partial reason why tax revenues are keeping the deficit from getting bigger. You inflict an artificial recession and the deficit will expand especially as automatic stabilizers kick in as unemployment rises. Revenues will fall and outflows will increase resulting in a bigger debt problem. You say you want to fix the economy, but your solution makes it far worse. Monetary policy right now is at one of the all time lows, removing that as a primer to the pump. And before Cpwill posts that twice refuted bull**** study again about how cuts actually fix the economy, his article ignores all impacts other than fiscal policy which effectively argues that economic data exists in isolated boxes which is patently retarded.

    As much as you complain about high taxes, the US actually has one of the lower effective marginal rates in the Industrial World. Furthermore, Corporate tax rates, effective are lower than many places in Europe. If you don't know what effective verse statutory rates are, don't reply because I'm going to be a total asshole to you if you screw it up.

    Considering how the rest of the world is still lending to the US at abnormally low rates DESPITE a ratings cut, the debt isn't an immediate issue. The lackluster growth is. No one ever grew their business by destroying it. That said, any spending MUST be targeted in growth areas.

    You people are demanding a recession as the cure to a deficit problem. That is completely idiotic.
    People are starting to wake up and see the truth behind the antics of the Republican party. While I do agree that the federal government does need to get its spending under control, I also agree that you can't reduce spending so drastically that your economy effectively grinds to a halt.

    If you thought private sector hiring was slow or anemic before the debt limit and subsequent credit rating downgrade, force the across-the-board spending cuts upon this country and see just how bad things can get! I would urge folks to watch again the press conference former President Bush gave on September 24, 2008 at the height of the economic crisis. He informed us that our nation faced a "serious financial crisis," warned that "our entire economy is in danger," cautioned that "these are not normal circumstances," and made it clear that "the federal government was the one institution with the resources to buy toxic assets and hold them until the markets stabalized". He also urged Congress to work together in solving the nation's economic problems. And yet, what has Congress done since then?

    One side has pushed for large deficit reductions w/some revenue in order to keep the government working and pay down its debts faster while the other has blocked every initiative that includes raising revenue.

    One side has been accused of trying to "rob from the rich to pay the poor" while the other points out what the public already knows - that the rich have been getting richer for decades while the poor and middle-class have gotten poorer.

    If Republicans in Congress continues to see things strictly from only their own partisan point of view, things will get progressively worse in this country and they will likely see themselves voted out of office in the coming elections.

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    You're family finds it's income for the year is $100k, but you're spending $140k, and have $1,500,000.00 in loans and your creditors are knocking at the door. You're wife and several family members get together to reconfigure the financial situation and decide that they'll make you take and extra job increasing the house hold income to $110k and spend only $138k next year.

    Would you agree to this plan?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You're family finds it's income for the year is $100k, but you're spending $140k, and have $1,500,000.00 in loans and your creditors are knocking at the door. You're wife and several family members get together to reconfigure the financial situation and decide that they'll make you take and extra job increasing the house hold income to $110k and spend only $138k next year.

    Would you agree to this plan?
    If I could print all of the money I wanted in the basement / federal reserve, it would be a great plan.

    Government budgets are unique. Apples and oranges.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    :smacks forehead: of course! why didn't we think of that before! Hooray! now we're all going to be as rich as Zimbabweans!

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Rob Dyrdek's show has nothing on a select few in this thread; this is utterly ridiculous.

    Institutional investors prefer treasuries for a few obvious reasons: 1.) They are the most liquid form of debt in the world. 2.) They are backed by the full faith of the U.S. government (meaning they are essentially risk free). 3.) They do pay a return as opposed to cash. 4.) FDIC has a cap on depositor insurance. However, what the majority of people do not realize (even Bond gurus forget) is that sovereign debt OUTPERFORMS private debt in a zero interest rate environment when unemployment is well above the natural rate, i.e. demand for quality sovereigns forces the market price for bonds up, and yields down. Real "Bond Kings" rely on quantitative research as opposed to gut/political feelings.

    The absence of Treasury Debt during such an economic downturn would be absolutely catastrophic. Let's review the national income product accounts to gain a better understanding.

    NIPA

    As we can clearly observe, the private sector left nearly a $700 billion hole in which the Federal Government was fortunate enough to attempt to fill. How anyone can assume (let alone believe) that line 7 would increase in the absence of public debt is totally beyond me.

    So for entertainment purposes, explain the mechanics that would allow such an assumption to come to life. If anyone is feeling up to it, explain the discrepancy in line 21 and why this is significant.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    why didn't we think of that before!
    This seems to be a perpetual theme.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :smacks forehead: of course! why didn't we think of that before! Hooray! now we're all going to be as rich as Zimbabweans!
    I didn't say easing monetary policy was a good solution, just that your analogy was merritless.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Rob Dyrdek's show has nothing on a select few in this thread; this is utterly ridiculous.

    Institutional investors prefer treasuries for a few obvious reasons: 1.) They are the most liquid form of debt in the world. 2.) They are backed by the full faith of the U.S. government (meaning they are essentially risk free). 3.) They do pay a return as opposed to cash. 4.) FDIC has a cap on depositor insurance. However, what the majority of people do not realize (even Bond gurus forget) is that sovereign debt OUTPERFORMS private debt in a zero interest rate environment when unemployment is well above the natural rate, i.e. demand for quality sovereigns forces the market price for bonds up, and yields down. Real "Bond Kings" rely on quantitative research as opposed to gut/political feelings.

    The absence of Treasury Debt during such an economic downturn would be absolutely catastrophic. Let's review the national income product accounts to gain a better understanding.

    NIPA

    As we can clearly observe, the private sector left nearly a $700 billion hole in which the Federal Government was fortunate enough to attempt to fill. How anyone can assume (let alone believe) that line 7 would increase in the absence of public debt is totally beyond me.

    So for entertainment purposes, explain the mechanics that would allow such an assumption to come to life. If anyone is feeling up to it, explain the discrepancy in line 21 and why this is significant.
    I'm giving up on talking to these fools.

    They have no understanding at all of the topic. Cpwill doesn't seem to get that he cannot apply an argument that works in 2005 to now.

    Putting him in the same category as Conservative.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You're family finds it's income for the year is $100k, but you're spending $140k, and have $1,500,000.00 in loans and your creditors are knocking at the door. You're wife and several family members get together to reconfigure the financial situation and decide that they'll make you take and extra job increasing the house hold income to $110k and spend only $138k next year.

    Would you agree to this plan?
    Of course not. You'd have to be an idiot not to realize that you have to cut your spending AND increase your income (i.e. revenue).
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Boehner rejects Democrats’ $3 trillion deficit reduction proposal to ‘supercommit

    Here is one reason I hope that there is no deal and we simply get the automatic cuts.

    ‘Secret farm bill’ primed for passage in debt deal

    Lawmakers on the House and Senate Agriculture committees are trying to write a new five-year farm bill through the supercommittee process.

    The legislators are using the supercommittee to avoid what would be a more public, election-year debate in 2012, when the current farm bill expires and new legislation would be scheduled for writing, according to critics of the effort.

    “We call it the secret farm bill,” said one environmental activist, who worries that if the lawmakers succeed, it will prop up U.S. farm payments through 2017.


    ‘Secret farm bill’ primed for passage in debt deal - TheHill.com

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