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Thread: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

  1. #181
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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And why not? May as well occupy towns and cities all over the United States in order to get the desired outcome, whatever that might be.
    as someone who has sat in on military staff meetings as they planned campaigns; a piece of advice.... you sort of really need to know what your desired outcome is before you start trying to achieve it. just a hint, from me to you. do with it what you will.

    It's not a pretty sight watching the country which was once the greatest hope for mankind self-destruct.
    that is correct. but given the events of the past three years, I have some hope.

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I read the article and saw nothing of the Dodds/Frank Bill or the idea that everyone wants bail-outs.
    Why would an article explaining why people are mad at cheaters on Wall Street talk about Dodd/Frank except possible to mention the effort to bring back some sane regulation?
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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by toomuchtime_ View Post
    In fact, the article says next to nothing about what OWS or the other Occupy movements are about. The author, like so many other people who are upset about our current problems, wants to believe that OWS shares his views and concerns, but offers no reasons for anyone else to think so. In fact, the article makes the opposite case. Although he makes some unsubstantiated charges of corruption on Wall Street, 99% of his article is about his anger over government policies, mostly of the Obama administration, while the only consistent message coming from the Occupy movements is anger over "corporate greed" - meaning pursuing profits is a bad thing - and inequality of wealth - meaning that they are pissed that some people have more money than they do.
    It seems that many people are confused about OWS because it is structurally very different from the type of top down leader led protests of the past they are familiar with. All of the things in the article are issues that the author and people in the movement are concerned with. Speaking for myself, I very strongly identify with much of what he said.

    This nonsense about envy and anger at others having more money is the requisite right wing fall back position to play ostrich and hide their heads from any real examination of what is wrong. Its comforting to the right to be able to write off all this populist anger as mere jealousy and thus not have to really do anything about it.


    Its not going away. And its not envy. We do not want to break into your sub-zero four foot wide frig and steal all your Beluga caviar. We do not want to break into your eight car heated garage and steal the keys to the Bentley and do figure eights on your fine trimmed manicured lawn. We do not want to steal the floor length mink fur coat and use it for toilet tissue. We do NOT want what you think is so precious and so important.

    What we do want is a just and sustainable society where economic justice is the rule and cheaters are punished instead of rewarded. By now, this should be very very clear to anyone who wants to see what is behind all this.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as someone who has sat in on military staff meetings as they planned campaigns; a piece of advice.... you sort of really need to know what your desired outcome is before you start trying to achieve it.
    That's true, but a spontaneous, inchoate movement is more or less the opposite of a top-down, precisely choreographed plan of action. OWS is an emergent phenomenon; to expect it to behave in orderly ways is foolish. I grant, however, that this chaotic nature could be the tragic flaw of this unorganized mass movement.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as someone who has sat in on military staff meetings as they planned campaigns; a piece of advice.... you sort of really need to know what your desired outcome is before you start trying to achieve it. just a hint, from me to you. do with it what you will.
    Those military staff meetings are so 1940's. The modern way is to protest first and hope the reason will be explained during the chanting.



    that is correct. but given the events of the past three years, I have some hope.
    I'd love to share that hope, and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see the American people come together again under the ir previous conviction of self reliance and helping their neighbor without depending on the government. But Barrack Obama has come down hard on the idea of self reliance and insists the government should do more.

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    Where do you find hope these days that the American people will snap back to reality? I'd be grateful if you shared your source.

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why would an article explaining why people are mad at cheaters on Wall Street talk about Dodd/Frank except possible to mention the effort to bring back some sane regulation?
    Because Dodd/Frank was intended to reform Wall Street. In other words it is the Democrats who have created the mess we see now, yet these protests about Wall Street are nowhere near Wall Street and are not addressing the problem.

    If some Wall Street type has committed a crime then let them name names and have him/her arrested. But it also seems that these protesters are also committing crimes and expected themselves to go unpunished. The irony will be lost on these poor dumb boobs but it is clear that these people, like the Bernie Madoffs of the world, also don't see themselves as criminals.
    Last edited by Grant; 10-30-11 at 12:04 PM.

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It seems that many people are confused about OWS because it is structurally very different from the type of top down leader led protests of the past they are familiar with. All of the things in the article are issues that the author and people in the movement are concerned with. Speaking for myself, I very strongly identify with much of what he said.

    This nonsense about envy and anger at others having more money is the requisite right wing fall back position to play ostrich and hide their heads from any real examination of what is wrong. Its comforting to the right to be able to write off all this populist anger as mere jealousy and thus not have to really do anything about it.


    Its not going away. And its not envy. We do not want to break into your sub-zero four foot wide frig and steal all your Beluga caviar. We do not want to break into your eight car heated garage and steal the keys to the Bentley and do figure eights on your fine trimmed manicured lawn. We do not want to steal the floor length mink fur coat and use it for toilet tissue. We do NOT want what you think is so precious and so important.

    What we do want is a just and sustainable society where economic justice is the rule and cheaters are punished instead of rewarded. By now, this should be very very clear to anyone who wants to see what is behind all this.
    Ever wonder why our politicians are strangely silent? I do.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Ever wonder why our politicians are strangely silent? I do.
    Could be that the majority of them are pretty wealthy, or that they realize how stupid they might sound saying "why yes...I AGREE with the protesters and being upset with the influence banks and brokers have on politicians and I would LOVE to talk more about it, but right now I'm on my way to a fundraiser hosted by banks and brokers..."

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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Ever wonder why our politicians are strangely silent? I do.
    good question. I suspect some see it as a threat to their adopted belief system while others see it as something that could blow up in their face should they get on the wrong side of it - which ever side that may be. So the safe path is to stay away from it in the hopes it dies out with the winter snows.
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    Re: Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    good question. I suspect some see it as a threat to their adopted belief system while others see it as something that could blow up in their face should they get on the wrong side of it - which ever side that may be. So the safe path is to stay away from it in the hopes it dies out with the winter snows.
    I think they stay out of it primarily because it's potentially a politically fatal minefield.

    surviving , politically, is always the number 1 concern of politicians.

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