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Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

j-mac said:
Oh so that is just great! Didn't he also mention something about capping the repayment at 10% of anual income? So let's see here, you graduate with a loan bill that is gaining interest at 6% annually, on $150K of loans for your Brazilian Bongo degree, and you get a job out of collage that makes 35K a year. So you repay $3500 per year for 20 years which would add up to roughly half of the principle of the loan then it is just forgiven? Who picks that up? Me?

j-mac
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I give you credit for not making as bad a mistake on the context of the arguement as others. The I spoke to did not mention them paying less. I would be interested to see how many get away with paying less per month. Those I know have not be allowed to do so, but admit my limited sample is not enough to be representative. Do you have information?
 
Dickieboy said:
Technically, not 'where most the loans are':

•Nonfederal student loans grew rapidly for most of the decade, increasing from 7% of education loans in 1997–1998 to 23% in 2005–2006. However, the growth in these loans, which carry no subsidy and generally have less favorable terms than federal loans, slowed in 2006–2007. Private loan volume declined slightly in inflation-adjusted dollars in 2007–2008 but still represents 23% of the total loan volume.(Source: The College Board, Trends in Student Aid, 2008)

Yes, 3 years old but the latest data I found...I doubt the 23% reported has moved to about 50% in those three years as, per the exerpt, it didn't change from '05-'08.
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But aren't those government gauranteed loans? if not, I don't think the government can forgive them at all. If so, I would count them under government loans.
 
Boo Radley said:
I give you credit for not making as bad a mistake on the context of the arguement as others. The I spoke to did not mention them paying less. I would be interested to see how many get away with paying less per month. Those I know have not be allowed to do so, but admit my limited sample is not enough to be representative. Do you have information?
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I don't know all the specifics but I do know that the Wa Po did a rather in depth piece on what Obama is proposing, and it doesn't seem to be at all what he is selling on the trail....

Obama’s plan will help millions, but not everyone qualifies - The Washington Post

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I don't know all the specifics but I do know that the Wa Po did a rather in depth piece on what Obama is proposing, and it doesn't seem to be at all what he is selling on the trail....

Obama’s plan will help millions, but not everyone qualifies - The Washington Post

j-mac
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It doesn't tell us much, and doesn't seem likely to help those most in need, those already in default. A trillion dollar problem that is going to crash. Seems to me we should consider being more proactive. But we can wait for the crash.
 
Boo Radley said:
It doesn't tell us much, and doesn't seem likely to help those most in need, those already in default.
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Absolutely, which is not what he is saying on the trail is it? But in any case, these "bailouts" and the mentality that further them has to stop.

A trillion dollar problem that is going to crash. Seems to me we should consider being more proactive. But we can wait for the crash.
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And how do you do that? What do you have in mind?

j-mac
 
Usually the problem I see with educational loans is they drive up the price of tuition---the more students can get, the more universities can charge. What does this forgiveness after 20 years rule do to that theory?
 
Krhazy said:
Usually the problem I see with educational loans is they drive up the price of tuition---the more students can get, the more universities can charge. What does this forgiveness after 20 years rule do to that theory?
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From what I can tell, drive it higher....Much like the housing bubble.

j-mac
 
Boo Radley said:
But aren't those government gauranteed loans? if not, I don't think the government can forgive them at all. If so, I would count them under government loans.
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Not per the article, but with the recent PO they CAN be incorporated with government guaranteed ones and THEN forgiven. The point was that non-government loans are NOT the majority.
 
Krhazy said:
Usually the problem I see with educational loans is they drive up the price of tuition---the more students can get, the more universities can charge.
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Exactly, standard supply/demand issue. Unfortunately easy student credit distorts the market and thus drives the price up.
 
j-mac said:
From what I can tell, drive it higher....Much like the housing bubble.

j-mac
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Why wouldn't it effectively put a cap on the amount students can get in loans? If loans are to be forgiven after 20 years at payments of 10% of income, you'd think that would eventually cause lenders to refuse to loan more than a certain amount (not sure what it would be, exactly, but should be estimatable).
 
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j-mac said:
Absolutely, which is not what he is saying on the trail is it? But in any case, these "bailouts" and the mentality that further them has to stop.
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J, I'm never shocked when a politiicans says something different on the trail. But bailout or not, the laons won't get paid, and this will have consequences on all of us one way or another. The question is do we act or not. I think there is room for debate on this. But we've largely bailed out the top and let the bottom sink. While I migh allow all to sink, I have no time for saviong the top at the expense of the the working people of this country.

And how do you do that? What do you have in mind?

j-mac
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And that's the big question. Largely with Walstreet, we bailed them out. With the auto industry, we bailed them out. With the banks, we bailed them out. With home owners we sent them crumbs and called them names. Like those areas, this one too will leave us in a no win situation that will hurt. I just suggest we start an honest discussion, not demonizing anyone who is serious and honest.
 
Dickieboy said:
Not per the article, but with the recent PO they CAN be incorporated with government guaranteed ones and THEN forgiven. The point was that non-government loans are NOT the majority.
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I may have missed the link, but once guaranteed, aren't they then government? I mean, if the government is going to pay them, which is what guarantee means, I don't see it not being government.

And if the government is going to pay them, Obama is wrong about it costing tax payers. And if we're not, how can government forgive them? I think some information is missing.
 
Doesn't anyone work hard and pay cash any more?

I went to a 4 year school and paid for flight training all while working 2 jobs and paying for an apartment and car. Yes, it sucked. I had no life. I got up at 5:30 in the morning and spent the entire day working or going to classes and would drop dead around 11:30 at night. Only on every other Sunday did I have time to myself. But, I graduated with a 3.4 and zero debt. Yes, I could have had a better GPA and more fun if I had had a loan, but I had no debt.
 
Boo Radley said:
I may have missed the link, but once guaranteed, aren't they then government? I mean, if the government is going to pay them, which is what guarantee means, I don't see it not being government.
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Yes, which means us, you and me....You fine with that?

And if the government is going to pay them, Obama is wrong about it costing tax payers.
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What? wait a minute here...We are the government....so why would you say that if government pays these loans that we are not on the hook....???

And if we're not, how can government forgive them? I think some information is missing.
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Yeah, the truth.

j-mac
 
ksu_aviator said:
Doesn't anyone work hard and pay cash any more?

I went to a 4 year school and paid for flight training all while working 2 jobs and paying for an apartment and car. Yes, it sucked. I had no life. I got up at 5:30 in the morning and spent the entire day working or going to classes and would drop dead around 11:30 at night. Only on every other Sunday did I have time to myself. But, I graduated with a 3.4 and zero debt. Yes, I could have had a better GPA and more fun if I had had a loan, but I had no debt.
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I pay cash for most everything. But I could not pay tens of thousands of dollars cash. I suspect very few could. And less students, who for the most part don't make huge sums of money.
 
Boo Radley said:
I pay cash for most everything. But I could not pay tens of thousands of dollars cash. I suspect very few could. And less students, who for the most part don't make huge sums of money.
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It is not impossible, My daughter is working her way through a Nursing degree right now...When she graduates she will have paid for it herself.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Yes, which means us, you and me....You fine with that?
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Am I fine with a portion of my tax going to students? yes. I already give 50 dollars a month to titution for students I don't know.


What? wait a minute here...We are the government....so why would you say that if government pays these loans that we are not on the hook....???
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Where did I say we're off the hook? In fact, I said the opposite. i said he was wrong that we, the people, are off the hook.


Yeah, the truth.

j-mac
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That's certainly possible. It is also possible we don't know everything.
 
j-mac said:
It is not impossible, My daughter is working her way through a Nursing degree right now...When she graduates she will have paid for it herself.

j-mac
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Impossible? Don't think I said that. Let me ask you, AA or bachlors? How far in administration does she hope to go? If far, she'll need a masters. If she later wants to teach, she'll need a masters for the AA level, and a doctorate for the bachlor level. Should she set her sights low, or do you think she can pay ofr it all with cash?
 
Boo Radley said:
Impossible? Don't think I said that. Let me ask you, AA or bachlors? How far in administration does she hope to go? If far, she'll need a masters. If she later wants to teach, she'll need a masters for the AA level, and a doctorate for the bachlor level. Should she set her sights low, or do you think she can pay ofr it all with cash?
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right now, I believe her sights are set on being an RN, (Bachlors) and through continuing education she would have to see what opportunities are available at that time, but I do know that many Hospitals, and others pay for continuing education in exchange for a commitment to work there in positions they have a need for.

The point is that there are many avenues to higher education, and many that don't include going in debt.

j-mac
 
MrVicchio said:
First off, didn't he try this failed idea with mortgages?
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That was pretty much the first thing that came to mind as I saw news coverage of Comrade Obama announcing this plan. Looks to me like he's setting things up for almost exactly the same sort of disaster in the student debt area that we just saw in housing debt. Potentially even worse, since student loans aren't backed by any kind of collateral.
 
j-mac said:
right now, I believe her sights are set on being an RN, (Bachlors) and through continuing education she would have to see what opportunities are available at that time, but I do know that many Hospitals, and others pay for continuing education in exchange for a commitment to work there in positions they have a need for.

The point is that there are many avenues to higher education, and many that don't include going in debt.

j-mac
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Some do, but many find the obligatin to be burdensome, and there are a few other quirks. But it's a valid option if someone will pay, but someone is paying.

There are far, far more students than avenues. And many require you pay first before they reimburse. Which requires you have the cash, often not likely.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Doesn't anyone work hard and pay cash any more?

I went to a 4 year school and paid for flight training all while working 2 jobs and paying for an apartment and car. Yes, it sucked. I had no life. I got up at 5:30 in the morning and spent the entire day working or going to classes and would drop dead around 11:30 at night. Only on every other Sunday did I have time to myself. But, I graduated with a 3.4 and zero debt. Yes, I could have had a better GPA and more fun if I had had a loan, but I had no debt.
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How long ago was this? I think it would be next to impossible to pull this off today.

Even the nearest state school to where I grew up in Ohio (Wright State University) charges $8K per year in tuition, and books are probably another $2K...and this is for a normal public school that isn't particularly highly ranked. No 18-year-old can possibly come up with that much money on his own by working unskilled jobs, especially if he's also paying for his own room and board.
 
Boo Radley said:
Some do, but many find the obligatin to be burdensome, and there are a few other quirks. But it's a valid option if someone will pay, but someone is paying.

There are far, far more students than avenues. And many require you pay first before they reimburse. Which requires you have the cash, often not likely.
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I remember my father teaching me at a young age that anything worth while was not free. So with that in mind, instead of looking for how to skirt the tuition costs, maybe some personal responsibility, and good old fashioned hard work is in order.

j-mac
 
Kandahar said:
How long ago was this? I think it would be next to impossible to pull this off today.

Even the nearest state school to where I grew up in Ohio (Wright State University) charges $8K per year in tuition, and books are probably another $2K...and this is for a normal public school that isn't particularly highly ranked. No 18-year-old can possibly come up with that much money on his own by working unskilled jobs, especially if he's also paying for his own room and board.
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Then maybe instead of trying to take a full course load every semester, the young person scales back. Sure that 4 year degree may take 6 years to complete, but still.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I remember my father teaching me at a young age that anything worth while was not free. So with that in mind, instead of looking for how to skirt the tuition costs, maybe some personal responsibility, and good old fashioned hard work is in order.

j-mac
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I agree with your father, but again, it's not all one way or the other. It's a matter of being realisitc, pragmatic. Burdening young people with ecessive debt (the only other option is not free), is foolish. And allowing this problem to grow and crash on all of us isn't smart either. It's about problem solving and not about either debt being oppressive or free.
 
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