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Thread: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    No, what we need more of are lending institutions that aren't subsidized, and backed by the force of government, which might then put them on grounds to make them a bit more negotiable when it comes to allowing leeway on a graduates ability to make payments.
    Which is fine in some circles, trust me. But if you take away government backing, these loans will shrink in availability, rise in cost, and surely result in less folks being able to pursue a quality education. They are very unattractive loans to make.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Which is fine in some circles, trust me. But if you take away government backing, these loans will shrink in availability, rise in cost, and surely result in less folks being able to pursue a quality education. They are very unattractive loans to make.
    No, they will have those results INITIALLY, but if people can't afford to go to college, what happens to those colleges? They go outa business. The top 1% aren't having enough kids to keep all the higher ed institutions in this country in business. So they are going to do the only logical things they CAN do, reduce their prices, since those are largely bubbled up as a result of regulation anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    No, what we need more of are lending institutions that aren't subsidized, and backed by the force of government, which might then put them on grounds to make them a bit more negotiable when it comes to allowing leeway on a graduates ability to make payments.
    How about capping the amount which is guaranteed by the government in the effort to bring down cost on tuition?


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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I agree, but that is not what you are saying here. 1. was it not your own action to take out the loan? 2. When you default on that loan I have to pay it back through my taxes. how is that being responsible for your own actions?



    Why? That is in effect what you are advocating here?




    Not everyone is meant to go to collage. The trades in this country are hurting for qualified people. Plus the "poor" get their education paid for under government programs already. It is the middle class



    Then your gripe is with the University systems that continue to sit on endowments, and pass along bloated salaries for tenured professorial staff that may lecture one class a week but draw top shelf salary. Among other problems within the system ofcourse. But the bottom line is that these Universities that are soaking the students, are doing so because the government will back the loans. It is the damned housing bubble.

    Plus, who says you need to go to a top line University? There are many opportunities for people to get a degee without attending these money pits.



    Wow, that is real BS. Are you really saying here that those people without a collage degree are doomed to welfare?



    Putting words into my mouth will not make your argument look any less self absorbed, and wrong. Sorry.



    the choice that is NOT foolish in my view is the one that fits a particular person going forward with not only their budget, but also with their potential. It certainly is not a smart decision to take $150K plus in loans just so you can get a piece of paper with a certain name on it, then cry because you took out the loan in the first place.

    j-mac
    1. You can't default on a college loan. And if you could, I;m not asking tax payer dollars to handle that bill, I'm saying that that should be a risk of going into that sort of business. Right now, student loans is a completely RISK FREE business, because it's more or less bailed out, before it even really needs bailouts. ALA government backing and legal force. Put Student loan companies on the same footing as other businesses in this country. Make them no longer a risk free enterprise.

    2. It's not what I'm advocating, just my opinion. I don't think there are very many people who mistake the meaning of loan to mean grant.

    3. Saying this effectively backs up some of the things liberals say about republicans, and the 1%, and quite frankly, you should be ashamed of that. Not everyone is meant to go to college? Right, poor people, because you can't afford college without going into debt, don't go, be a plumber instead, and come fix the leaks at my wealthy, college educated kid's new house they bought. Because you can't afford to improve yourself without debt, don't bother.

    4. I agree about who cares about a school's status...what matters is what you learn. However, someone with the same degree from harvard is going to get the job over someone from a community college. Fact. Also, colleges cost a lot of money because of over regulation of the market. You have to have certification for most anything these days, and getting that means going to a state approved and accredited, higher learning institution. That creates demand.

    5. Sigh....no. I'm saying that if you want to keep people OFF of welfare, don't kick them while they are down. Allow for them to have a way to negotiate with their student loan holders about payments, in case someone with outstanding student loans falls on hard times, as a result of a crippled economy, as a result of a housing market crash, as a result of illegal activities by private parties and public officials, in the name of HUGE profits. Again, most college grads who are having trouble right now would not be HAVING so much trouble if our economy were not in the ****ter. Not asking for a handout...just asking for a means to fairly negotiate with the people that hold our loans. Not too much to ask, in my opinion, especially after we were forced to bail out other institutions.

    6. You claimed you didn't want to be held liable for the foolish decisions of others. If asked what those foolish decisions were, you'd reply, taking out loans they can't afford to pay back. At which point, since no one knows the future, that means getting an education they can't afford to pay for out of pocket...which means, poor people, don't go to college, since doing so equals going into debt for you. Feel free to clear that up for me it's wrong.

    7. 150K students loans aren't the problem, 60K loans are. I would wager very few people who get 4 year degrees go in the hole for 150K...most are between 30-60K. My wife's is 60K. Mine, since I have over paid for many years, is now 15K, down from 30K. Also, pray tell, how does one know one's potential? Explain this comment, that people should seek to stay within their potential....

    And people aren't crying because they took out the loan,at least not me. I'm angry, because my loan went to another company without my consent, and that other company treats me differently than my original lender did.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How about capping the amount which is guaranteed by the government in the effort to bring down cost on tuition?


    j-mac
    A big step in the right direction, in my opinion. There a very few things that government can do, and not royal **** up. Education is not one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    To make sure I'm not misunderstood, here, I also think we need to scale back the level of market regulation in some cases, too. Availability of funds is one piece of the pie, the other pieces are restrictions on competition, and on the requirement of certification for every job under the damn sun.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Which is fine in some circles, trust me. But if you take away government backing, these loans will shrink in availability, rise in cost, and surely result in less folks being able to pursue a quality education. They are very unattractive loans to make.
    It would seem this to be a good thing. Those 'less folks' are either determined to succeed or not. If they are they WILL FIND A WAY. if not they they will not become a burden on the rest of us specifically via unpaid student loans. They MIGHT in another way.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    I searched for who owes student loans and found this:
    Common Disputes Involving Defaulted Student Loans

    The loan was discharged in bankruptcy.
    I'm disabled
    The student died
    The school I attended closed
    I only attended the school for a short time
    I didn't graduate of have a GED when I enrolled in the school
    I was not 18
    I was not able to benefit from the education


    A little like buying a car and asking for your money back because it won't run as fast as you expected. "I was told it would go 155 and I can only get to 140 before I wet my pants."

    Indeed. An entire generation getting off on a bad footing because of climbing tuition and interest rates and a bad job market isn't worth any attention from the federal government. Not like they have to do anything important in the future, like, carrying the economy and footing the bill for increasingly expensive government programs.
    I heard one school justify the high tuition by saying that the school gives a lot of scholarships to needy kids so those who can get a loan have to pay the higher prices.

    As far as carrying the economy and footing the bill for government programs: it will be much cheaper for them to pay their loans now than to pay a generation of government bureaucrats to oversee this program.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    And technically the 25 year position is incorrect, from the Whitehouse:

    ...this borrower remained a teacher or was employed in another public service occupation, he would be eligible for forgiveness under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program after 10 years of payments .

    So, not 25 year but 10 years...EVERYONE'S situation is different so providing examples of support will be an exercise in theory and thus a waste of time.

    FACT SHEET: "Help Americans Manage Student Loan Debt" | The White House
    That's something completely different. You entered into a conversation. The quote I took acception to was that AFTER paying for 25 years, the debt would be forgiven. To which I asked if they had paid for 25 years, what would there be to forgive. Going anywhere else is not addressing that point. You need examples of people who have paid for 25 years.

    Your issue here is one of deciding that because we need this person to fill a problem area, we're willing to cut them a break. this is not new, but much harder to qualify for than you think.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    1. You can't default on a college loan. And if you could, I;m not asking tax payer dollars to handle that bill, I'm saying that that should be a risk of going into that sort of business. Right now, student loans is a completely RISK FREE business, because it's more or less bailed out, before it even really needs bailouts. ALA government backing and legal force. Put Student loan companies on the same footing as other businesses in this country. Make them no longer a risk free enterprise.
    Granting a loan will always be a risk, the scope of that risk is whether or not the tax payer is the guarantor of that loan instrument. On that I think we agree.

    2. It's not what I'm advocating, just my opinion. I don't think there are very many people who mistake the meaning of loan to mean grant.
    Ok, sorry, it could be my poor choice of wording, however, there is a significant number of kids down on OWS that are indeed advocating abolishing student debt. In fact some have even stated to reporters that they took out these loans with NO INTENTION of ever paying them back.

    3. Saying this effectively backs up some of the things liberals say about republicans, and the 1%, and quite frankly, you should be ashamed of that. Not everyone is meant to go to college? Right, poor people, because you can't afford college without going into debt, don't go, be a plumber instead, and come fix the leaks at my wealthy, college educated kid's new house they bought. Because you can't afford to improve yourself without debt, don't bother.
    Nonsense. I didn't say that at all. But, the "poor" in this country have a myriad of programs designed to defray the cost of collage for them, it is the middle class like myself whose kids are taking out these loans. So to turn it into a "class warfare" type of thing is just a little disingenuous.

    4. I agree about who cares about a school's status...what matters is what you learn. However, someone with the same degree from harvard is going to get the job over someone from a community college. Fact. Also, colleges cost a lot of money because of over regulation of the market. You have to have certification for most anything these days, and getting that means going to a state approved and accredited, higher learning institution. That creates demand.
    this may be true for certain professions like say a Doctor, or Law, but when you look at the vast array of degrees that are pursued such as the Liberal Arts, or General Business degrees the disparity between the cost, vs. return, vs. availability of higher paying positions for the jobs trained for you have to look at whether or not signing for $150K vs. $60K in terms of what you can expect to make in your first 10 years following the completion of your degree is worth the added cost.

    5. Sigh....no. I'm saying that if you want to keep people OFF of welfare, don't kick them while they are down. Allow for them to have a way to negotiate with their student loan holders about payments, in case someone with outstanding student loans falls on hard times, as a result of a crippled economy, as a result of a housing market crash, as a result of illegal activities by private parties and public officials, in the name of HUGE profits. Again, most college grads who are having trouble right now would not be HAVING so much trouble if our economy were not in the ****ter. Not asking for a handout...just asking for a means to fairly negotiate with the people that hold our loans. Not too much to ask, in my opinion, especially after we were forced to bail out other institutions.
    Negotiation happens before you take the money and agree to the terms, not after.

    6. You claimed you didn't want to be held liable for the foolish decisions of others. If asked what those foolish decisions were, you'd reply, taking out loans they can't afford to pay back. At which point, since no one knows the future, that means getting an education they can't afford to pay for out of pocket...which means, poor people, don't go to college, since doing so equals going into debt for you. Feel free to clear that up for me it's wrong.
    Yes it is wrong to assume that the only way to get an education is through an institution that is going to have you on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of your collage career. It just isn't so.

    7. 150K students loans aren't the problem, 60K loans are. I would wager very few people who get 4 year degrees go in the hole for 150K...most are between 30-60K. My wife's is 60K. Mine, since I have over paid for many years, is now 15K, down from 30K. Also, pray tell, how does one know one's potential? Explain this comment, that people should seek to stay within their potential....
    Are you telling me that when you took out those loans, and decided what it was that you wanted to major in that you didn't do ANY research at all into what the demand of that chosen path was? That would be just one of the "foolish" examples of what I am talking about, I mean seriously, how many grads in Women's studies do we need? Really? But not all fields are equal. For instance, the kid taking out a four year degree at a state level collage for say a degree in engineering, will probably fare better than the person going to Harvard for a degree in Social Sciences would you agree?

    And people aren't crying because they took out the loan,at least not me. I'm angry, because my loan went to another company without my consent, and that other company treats me differently than my original lender did.
    Loan originators often sell off the loans they make to other institutions, that is also agreed in the initial disclosure of the loan agreement you signed. If that second holder is not honoring the letter of the loan, then you have recourse.

    j-mac
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