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Thread: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Be an intelligent investor and management will not piss on you.
    How does that have to do with the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    No, legal counsel is provided for in the Constitution....you know, one of those legal rights things.
    Not legal aid as in counsel. But a legal aid package; such as welfare. Which is a legal system which grants aid to those who need it.

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Funny how if you want to get money from the tax payers by working for it IE a government job it is not unconstitutional for them to require you to pee in a cup.But if you want to get money from the tax payer and not do anything to earn it then its unconstitutional to require you to pee in a cup.
    Not to mention that many private-sector employers require drugs testing.

    I have to say that I am not terribly inclined to defend drug testing as a practice, outside of any credible, probable cause to believe that a given person is using drugs and by doing so, creating a danger to others.

    But there is something very twisted about the idea that one can be required to submit to drug testing as a condition of earning a living through honest work, but not as a condition of living as an unproductive parasite at taxpayer expense.
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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Requiring people to get drug testing in order to receive life saving benefits is entrapment because it is forcing them to choose between survival and foregoing their 4th Amendment rights. Given the economic problems and the huge unemployment rate, I find this especially unethical.

    The Federal judge got it right. FA has no business intruding into people's lives this way, especially since the number of incidents involving drug abuse is so small.

    You give the government an inch and they take a mile. No more.
    Yet, we get our 4th Amendment rights trampled when we go to the airport now. If you apply for a job with any large corporation, you are given a drug test. If you want make a few holiday bucks working for FedEX at night, there is a drug test. Why shouldn't there be a drug test for government programs?

    The same way I have a choice to take a flight, work for a large private/public corporation, they have a choice on filing their benefits. If they don't like how their STATE government is handling it, go to another state, vote to change it or don't file at all.

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Points of fact: 1,600 in FL refused to be tested. Of the 7,000 who agreed, 32 failed. The guy suing is doing it because he feels being asked to do it is unconstitutional. Also, the ACLU is defending him - it is refreshing to see conservatives praising them.

    Now I'll put a fly in the ointment: What if testing were mandatory and failing it meant entering treatment and continuing in a 12 step program to get your benefits instead of denial of benefits? Did I hear howls of "too expensive"? In the long run this would save mega$$$$ - active alcoholics and addicts and their immediate family members are about 7 times more likely to be drawing government benefits, roughly 64% of all identity thefts, 58% of home burglaries and 86% of all petty thefts are committed by addicts to get the money for drugs. Add family disintegration, loss of employment, failure in school, domestic violence, and child abuse to the crime costs and you can see that it costs far less to treat addicts and alcoholics than not to treat them.

    According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse: Drug abuse and addiction have negative consequences for individuals and for society. Estimates of the total overall costs of substance abuse in the United States, including productivity (loss of time at work and unable to function effectively at work) and health problems and crime-related costs, exceed $407 billion annually. This includes approximately $181 billion for illicit drugs and $235 billion for alcohol. (Sources for numbers: Alcohol costs: Global burden of disease and injury and economic cost attributable to alcohol use and alcohol-use disorders : The Lancet and illicit drug costs: Ranking of drugs: a more balanced risk-assessment : The Lancet )

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Funny how if you want to get money from the tax payers by working for it IE a government job it is not unconstitutional for them to require you to pee in a cup.But if you want to get money from the tax payer and not do anything to earn it then its unconstitutional to require you to pee in a cup.

    Apples and Oranges.

    But nice try.

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Apples and Oranges.

    But nice try.
    How is it apples and oranges?
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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Funny how if you want to get money from the tax payers by working for it IE a government job it is not unconstitutional for them to require you to pee in a cup.But if you want to get money from the tax payer and not do anything to earn it then its unconstitutional to require you to pee in a cup.
    I don't think either one is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Highway View Post
    This whole thing was a ruse to begin with. All it was doing was putting a band aid on a problem that needs surgery. Like the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty/Great Society has failed epically, the only solution to the welfare problem is nixing it entirely.
    It's a feel good solution. It keeps people like us debating stuff like this while getting a pass on the real stuff they can't solve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Not to mention that many private-sector employers require drugs testing.

    I have to say that I am not terribly inclined to defend drug testing as a practice, outside of any credible, probable cause to believe that a given person is using drugs and by doing so, creating a danger to others.

    But there is something very twisted about the idea that one can be required to submit to drug testing as a condition of earning a living through honest work, but not as a condition of living as an unproductive parasite at taxpayer expense.
    The difference, IMO, is public vs private. While I question the legitimacy of "guilty until proven innocent" to begin with, I can (grudgingly) accept that private business can do it, but believe that the government should never be allowed to adopt that mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Apples and Oranges.

    But nice try.
    That's not helpful. Could you expand on that and explain *why* it's apples and oranges?

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    The myth that there are a lot of drug addicts on welfare has been debunked. You can do a simple search on DP to see the thread I posted citing a study that proves this.

    Requiring people to get drug testing in order to receive life saving benefits is entrapment because it is forcing them to choose between survival and foregoing their 4th Amendment rights. Given the economic problems and the huge unemployment rate, I find this especially unethical.

    The Federal judge got it right. FA has no business intruding into people's lives this way, especially since the number of incidents involving drug abuse is so small.

    You give the government an inch and they take a mile. No more.
    I've answered the "debunking" assertion you've made before and the fact is the test have not proven anything one way or the other because nobody can be forced to take the test so the amount of people on welfare who are on drugs is unknown. The debate tactic of showing a poll that debunks the most extreme supposition that some but not most people have is not debunking anything.

    That being said, I happen to agree with the judge on this one too. We should be spending the money to make sure the people who truly need assitance are getting it, to make sure the system operates efficiently and to police fraud.

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    If we're going to start drug testing folks, let's start with the Republicans. They've turned out to be such hypocrites in other areas... anti-gays getting caught with boys, family-values types paying off mistresses.
    <a href=http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/bill-schmalfeldt target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-b...ll-schmalfeldt</a>

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    Re: Florida welfare benefit drug test law blocked

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    It's a feel good solution. It keeps people like us debating stuff like this while getting a pass on the real stuff they can't solve.
    Government cant solve ****, only make things worse.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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