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Thread: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The Chicago way.
    A major American city with the some of the finest colleges and Universities in the country...? You mean that Chicago?

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It's all about the kids though....Right?


    j-mac
    it's all about who u know.motorcades of black cars flying down american highways .....that brings back memories.
    Listen to your conscience....and let it sink in.

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    As prior discussions about unions and education in this country Boo, you tend to find articles, mainly from MSM sources that agree with you, and then cherry pick those articles to paint a picture that you want to see, not necessarily what is the truth of the matter. For instance from the first article of yours....

    Such research includes a much-publicized study a year ago from the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO). Several other, narrower studies including one on New York City charters and a study that came out last week on charter schools operated by the Knowledge Is Power Program (KIPP) have showed positive outcomes for charters.

    The result, say education researchers, is a heated debate but also a growing consensus that charters, like regular public schools, vary widely in their quality and that they are at their best when serving a more disadvantaged population.
    So at best according to this article the studies on comparison are mixed. But, if it is the children that this is about, then we have to look at why Charters are out preforming public schools in the areas with the most need.

    The second article from the NYT says this:

    The study concluded that charter students made better progress in math and English than their counterparts who ended up in traditional schools.
    Again showing that you only seem to pick out that which supports your agenda against charters.

    And the third article reviewing a book is IMHO, a text book study in slanted publishing by the NYT. Granted it is only a book review, however since you cite it as some endeavor in fact, rather than what it actually is, which is an opinion designed to tear down the success of Charters that often operate on fractional budgets compared to their failing counterparts in the same circumstances.

    It starts out with a premise, and conclusion, then proceeds to do the same thing you do Boo, which is set out to prove that conclusion ignoring the successes and touting how Charters are bad, rather than take a look at what succeeds in the Charter system and emulate it in the public system, all for the defense of Union teaching, bolstering my contention that public sector teaching positions are less about quality for the kids they teach, and more about protecting their own pensions, jobs, and conditions protected by the destructive forces within the Unions in the public sector.

    So, nice try, but even Obama's Sec of Ed. sees the benefit of Charters, and is day by day moving toward implementing them....I get the distinct feeling that Teachers Unions, and alike in the public sectors days are numbered, and I say good riddance. Maybe at that point we can truly focus on education, instead of taking care of greedy adults that want to sluff through life on my dime.

    Much like the two highlighted in the OP that game the system, they are not alone.

    j-mac
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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
    it's all about who u know.motorcades of black cars flying down american highways .....that brings back memories.
    Morning, unfortunately that is true within the education system today. And we need to ask why is that? All one has to do is look at the goals of the Union system in education across the country today, and not necessarily the stated goals, but those that are transparent and clear when we study their actions, and words. Unfortunately, the answer may not be too far removed from what you took opportunity to escape and come here for, seeing as today many Unions, especially in the public sector seem to share the same goals as many Marx based thought.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    A major American city with the some of the finest colleges and Universities in the country...? You mean that Chicago?
    And the one with a government that looks like it is run by organized crime, and cops who you're just better off not coming across.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As prior discussions about unions and education in this country Boo, you tend to find articles, mainly from MSM sources that agree with you, and then cherry pick those articles to paint a picture that you want to see, not necessarily what is the truth of the matter. For instance from the first article of yours....
    Besides your pot to kettle issue, as I know the American non-thinker, The weekly Standard, and NRO in no way are cherry picked sources that merely say what you agree with, the fact is there is a documented study sourced and linked.


    So at best according to this article the studies on comparison are mixed. But, if it is the children that this is about, then we have to look at why Charters are out preforming public schools in the areas with the most need.
    In which they cherry pick students. If public schools could do this, they would out perform as well. You're missing the point.

    The second article from the NYT says this:
    Yes, I linked it. And I read all of it. Your quote is followed by this:

    Ms. Hoxby’s study, released in September, followed by three months the much broader investigation by a Stanford colleague, at the Center for Research on Education Outcomes, which showed discouraging results for charters nationally.
    So, you go in, cherry pick a study that was limited, sought to specifically refute that success was based on their, charter schools, skiming the top of the student population, which they largely do, and ignore the larger, broader study? Was this because you sought to be objective, or because you want to cherry pick?

    Again showing that you only seem to pick out that which supports your agenda against charters.

    And the third article reviewing a book is IMHO, a text book study in slanted publishing by the NYT. Granted it is only a book review, however since you cite it as some endeavor in fact, rather than what it actually is, which is an opinion designed to tear down the success of Charters that often operate on fractional budgets compared to their failing counterparts in the same circumstances.

    It starts out with a premise, and conclusion, then proceeds to do the same thing you do Boo, which is set out to prove that conclusion ignoring the successes and touting how Charters are bad, rather than take a look at what succeeds in the Charter system and emulate it in the public system, all for the defense of Union teaching, bolstering my contention that public sector teaching positions are less about quality for the kids they teach, and more about protecting their own pensions, jobs, and conditions protected by the destructive forces within the Unions in the public sector.

    So, nice try, but even Obama's Sec of Ed. sees the benefit of Charters, and is day by day moving toward implementing them....I get the distinct feeling that Teachers Unions, and alike in the public sectors days are numbered, and I say good riddance. Maybe at that point we can truly focus on education, instead of taking care of greedy adults that want to sluff through life on my dime.

    Much like the two highlighted in the OP that game the system, they are not alone.

    j-mac
    Tghere's something to be said j for reading the entire article, all the articles linked, and synthesing the informtion to draw a conclusion. I sited only three articles, but there are more. You want to believe that charter schools are magic, but the research simply doesn't support that.

    And further, I note you offered nothing other than a politiican says so. Fancy that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can always homeschool.
    Sure, no problem, all you need is a spouse who makes at least 80K a year to support you all, and to get pats the government red tape to doing so. No big deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And the one with a government that is run by organized crime, and cops who you're just better off not coming across.

    There....fixed that for you. These small typos can happen from time to time...
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Besides your pot to kettle issue, as I know the American non-thinker, The weekly Standard, and NRO in no way are cherry picked sources that merely say what you agree with, the fact is there is a documented study sourced and linked.
    Ok, Now since this is the fall back position of yours that you seem to have been using for years now when you can't have a rational discussion on the facts. I want you to document for me, when was the last time that I used any of the three sources you mention as anything other than opinion, and when I last used them period!

    If you are not going to have an honest discussion on the topic, then don't respond. Thanks.

    In which they cherry pick students. If public schools could do this, they would out perform as well. You're missing the point.
    I am not missing the point at all, please show me the methodology, and how your study starts out with a purely objective hypothesis and we can go from there. But so far all you are offering is a giant 'Nuh uh' as rebuttal, completely refusing to even consider other studies on the subject that disagree with your study's conclusions.

    Yes, I linked it. And I read all of it.
    As did I Joe.

    So, you go in, cherry pick a study that was limited, sought to specifically refute that success was based on their, charter schools, skiming the top of the student population, which they largely do, and ignore the larger, broader study? Was this because you sought to be objective, or because you want to cherry pick?
    No, and I don't think I am cherry picking, rather pointing out how it was your initial posting that chose to highlight only that which agreed with your defense of Unions in the public school systems.

    Tghere's something to be said j for reading the entire article, all the articles linked, and synthesing the informtion to draw a conclusion. I sited only three articles, but there are more. You want to believe that charter schools are magic, but the research simply doesn't support that.
    So, if my opinion doesn't agree with yours on this subject, then it must be that either my academic pedigree, ability to comprehend, ability to read the entire pap you offer, or simply because of some other dishonest approach to the debate. No, it could never be that your words here offer little more than text book projection on your case that shine sunlight into your own thought processes concerning the subject.

    And further, I note you offered nothing other than a politiican says so. Fancy that.
    That Politician is the guy you voted for in 2008, and likely will again next year...

    Come on Joe, face it. Unions in the public sector have little to do with real education, and more about indoctrination, self preservation of the teacher, and generally poor quality education at the expense of the tax payer.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: 2 teachers union lobbyists teach for a day to qualify for hefty pensions

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Sure, no problem, all you need is a spouse who makes at least 80K a year to support you all, and to get pats the government red tape to doing so. No big deal.
    No big deal, there's choice; right?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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