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Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

Ikari said:
Can we stop bombing all those various places and countries too? Stop helping with revolutions and such? Maybe save some money.
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May I also add, that our government should attempt to operate with in the constrictions set by our constitution, this would definitely save our country blood and money.
 
deltabtry said:
May I also add, that our government should attempt to operate with in the constrictions set by our constitution, this would definitely save our country blood and money.
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It is good to agree on occassion. ;)
 
We didn't face full-blown insurgencies in post-war Germany and Japan...yes there's a huge difference, and not merely one of degree.
 
StillBallin75 said:
We didn't face full-blown insurgencies in post-war Germany and Japan...yes there's a huge difference, and not merely one of degree.
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of course there is. comparing post-WW2 Germany & Japan to Iraq after the fall of Saddam, is 100% dishonesty.
 
Thunder said:
you're right. Bush never asked Congress to declare war against Iraq nor Afghanistan, therefore not only did the wars end in 2002 & 2003, they weren't even real wars.
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Check and Mate. Turn over your King voluntarily and preserve at least a little dignity. Or not.
 
StillBallin75 said:
We didn't face full-blown insurgencies in post-war Germany and Japan...yes there's a huge difference, and not merely one of degree.
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Quite correct. Nor was there a lot of Germans killing germans, or the Japanese killing the Japanese. The differences are simply to great to make an effective comparison.
 
StillBallin75 said:
We didn't face full-blown insurgencies in post-war Germany and Japan...yes there's a huge difference, and not merely one of degree.
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Time...environment...enemy...all different but the scenarios are identical. You accept we ended the wars with Germany and Japan, and even though we STILL maintain a presence and our troops were engaged in post war ops for over a decade, that is 'different'. Well...OK...cling to it if you will SB. Maybe YOU can answer the question. We went to war in Iraq against the military and government of Saddam Hussein. Who today are we 'at war' with and when we leave, will that 'war' be over?
 
VanceMack said:
Time...environment...enemy...all different but the scenarios are identical...
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the fact remains that attempting to allude an analogy between post-WW2 Japan & Germany, and Iraq after the fall of Saddam, is dishonest, irrational, and illogical.
 
Thunder said:
the fact remains that attempting to allude an analogy between post-WW2 Japan & Germany, and Iraq after the fall of Saddam, is dishonest, irrational, and illogical.
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Ah...so we DID defeat Saddams government and military in 2003. We DID work with the Iraqi people. We HAVE been training with and fighting side by side with the Iraqi military since 2003.
 
VanceMack said:
Ah...so we DID defeat Saddams government and military in 2003. We DID work with the Iraqi people. We HAVE been training with and fighting side by side with the Iraqi military since 2003.
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you analogy between post-WW2 Germany & Japan, and Iraq after the fall of Saddam, is dishonest & pathetic.
 
Thunder said:
the fact remains that attempting to allude an analogy between post-WW2 Japan & Germany, and Iraq after the fall of Saddam, is dishonest, irrational, and illogical.
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Close enough to be compared if someone wishes too. Oh wait, ME is full of brown guys with onion head hats. (ohhhhh, i dont pull the race card out often... but.) At least with Japan it was their militairy attacking our militairy. And not civileans. (of course America still waged a war against Japans civileans even though their militairy attacked)
 
VanceMack said:
Time...environment...enemy...all different but the scenarios are identical. You accept we ended the wars with Germany and Japan, and even though we STILL maintain a presence and our troops were engaged in post war ops for over a decade, that is 'different'. Well...OK...cling to it if you will SB. Maybe YOU can answer the question. We went to war in Iraq against the military and government of Saddam Hussein. Who today are we 'at war' with and when we leave, will that 'war' be over?
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I'll answer, we ahve fought a government or military since the early days. We've been refereeing a civil war, nothing more. No, it doesn't at all compare to WWII. Nor does our or staying there. So, while we won't really be leaving entirely, it is time to let Iraqis fight their own civil war.
 
Thunder said:
any evidence that the final set-up is really part of Bush's plan from 2008?
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What do you mean by the final set-up? Can you not acknowledge that Bush set this in motion and Obama is following through? Obama also started pulling troops out of Iraq cities in June 2009 as per "order" of U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. I wish Obama could at least be honest and have ran on Bush's foreign policy platform.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'll answer, we ahve fought a government or military since the early days. We've been refereeing a civil war, nothing more. No, it doesn't at all compare to WWII. Nor does our or staying there. So, while we won't really be leaving entirely, it is time to let Iraqis fight their own civil war.
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To which I shockingly and absolutely agree and believe it is at least 3 years too late. Bush did a great job winning both wars. He did a lousy job with post war ops in both countries.
 
StillBallin75 said:
We didn't face full-blown insurgencies in post-war Germany and Japan...yes there's a huge difference, and not merely one of degree.
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As Boo rightly points out...the war against both countries ended a long long time ago. To claim that we are still at war and now pulling out means we have suddenly won something or surrendering...if...you know..we are 'at war'. We arent and havent been since 2002/2003.
 
Boo Radley said:
It is good to agree on occassion. ;)
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I agree and 113 years of being either in a perpetual state of war or at war, I think enough is enough. We need to take another look at ourselves and rediscover who we are and what we are about, according to who our founding fathers envisioned us to be, of course with plenty of room for improvement.
 
Thunder said:
Obama mentioned Bush after he killed OBL. He invited Bush to GZ to honor the moment in history, but Bush refused cause he is a whiny little bitch.
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Obama didn't kill OBL, Navy seal team 6 did, yet they do not celebrate it perhaps a lesson we all can use.
 
deltabtry said:
I agree and 113 years of being either in a perpetual state of war or at war, I think enough is enough. We need to take another look at ourselves and rediscover who we are and what we are about, according to who our founding fathers envisioned us to be, of course with plenty of room for improvement.
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From my point of view, history tells me that some of our wars are just, while most are not. Violence and military force itself is inherently a tool of limited utility. After so many decades of attempting to export democracy across the world with mixed success, we have to recognize that some problems just can't be solved by government, something that conservatives love to tell liberals.
 
I hate to piss on such good news, but a huge possible problem remains.

The Kurdish north might decide to roll the dice and formally secede from Iraq.

Kurdistan
 
Tashah said:
I hate to piss on such good news, but a huge possible problem remains.

The Kurdish north might decide to roll the dice and formally secede from Iraq.

Kurdistan
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It's not really "good news." I'd call this "less bad" news. Iraq as a country faces numerous severe challenges, both from within and without. IMHO staying there wouldn't have helped solve any of these problems - many of which are rooted in history, culture, and politics - but neither does pulling out. The only difference is that our troops will no longer have to bleed for Iraq's problems.
 
deltabtry said:
Obama didn't kill OBL, Navy seal team 6 did, yet they do not celebrate it perhaps a lesson we all can use.
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Obama was the one to finally make the call. Obama sent them in. Obama shares in the success, just as Bush shares in the success of finding Saddam.
 
deltabtry said:
Obama didn't kill OBL, Navy seal team 6 did, yet they do not celebrate it perhaps a lesson we all can use.
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Why is it, if something negative happens, its all on the President because he is sitting in the office, but when something good happens (well, since 2008) its not all about the president (you know, accountability).

I am being serious here. If anything good happened during Bush's reign, I gave him props. When negative things happened under his watch...you know, 9/11 and so forth, I said he was being held responsible for it since he was sitting in that office.

You see, I am not a hack. How you doin? :)
 
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