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Thread: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Winning means there is no doubt who the victor is.

    Not having a decisive victory means the war will continue indefinitely.

    It's amazing that this still has to be explained, but perhaps that's just the age in which we live.
    Kind of like saying winning is winning. Really doesn't explain much. When will you know we've won? What will be the critieria? The metrics?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Winning means there is no doubt who the victor is.

    Not having a decisive victory means the war will continue indefinitely.

    It's amazing that this still has to be explained, but perhaps that's just the age in which we live.
    You have a very floppy definition of winning. Also, this is why we have Declaration of Wars, it makes it oh so much easier. Declare war, go in, someone signs a surrender treaty, end.

    It's a lot better when we follow the Constitution instead of just play lip service to it while allowing the government to do anything it wants.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    QUOTE=Boo Radley;1059919443]I repost this for you Grant.
    Thank you.

    This is indeed what I said.

    The American people were very much against involving themselves in WWII just 20 years after "The War To End All Wars" but that proved impossible. Since then there has been Communism with its 100 million plus victims and now Islamic terrorism. This goes well beyond trade and diplomatic relations and there is really nothing anyone can do about it except to meet the challenges the bad guys are always creating. That's just the way of the world.
    To make the claim that this involved the Iraq war is either disingenuous or dishonest. Why should i have to defend statements from you regarding something I never said, intimidated or intended to day.

    It goes well beyond "subtle", to use your word, into an area that I wasn't debating at all. From that you could mention the Boxer Rebellion or Mao's Little Red Book and be equally subtle.. I was making a singular point about a specific area and not mentioning the Iraq War at all, as you suggested. If you read things into what I post and debate that, rather than reading the post itself, then it turns whatever worthwhile debate their might have been into sludge.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Thank you.

    This is indeed what I said.



    To make the claim that this involved the Iraq war is either disingenuous or dishonest. Why should i have to defend statements from you regarding something I never said, intimidated or intended to day.

    It goes well beyond "subtle", to use your word, into an area that I wasn't debating at all. From that you could mention the Boxer Rebellion or Mao's Little Red Book and be equally subtle.. I was making a singular point about a specific area and not mentioning the Iraq War at all, as you suggested. If you read things into what I post and debate that, rather than reading the post itself, then it turns whatever worthwhile debate their might have been into sludge.
    So, we're not in Iraq for any of the things you mention? So why are we there?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You have a very floppy definition of winning. Also, this is why we have Declaration of Wars, it makes it oh so much easier. Declare war, go in, someone signs a surrender treaty, end.

    It's a lot better when we follow the Constitution instead of just play lip service to it while allowing the government to do anything it wants.
    Oh I agree the Constitution should be followed, though that was not the case in Libya or now in Central Africa. This does not contribute to winning a war, when in fact the definition of what that war is all about has never been fully explained.

    What is it about winning decisively do you find "floppy".

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, we're not in Iraq for any of the things you mention? So why are we there?
    Ostensibly to nail Saddam Hussein, which was quite legitimate (and made more sense than Gadaffi at this point) but I feel it also allowed the United States and its Allies to gain a foothold in the Middle East to have an insight, literally and figuratively, about what's going on there.

    Massive U.S. Embassy In Iraq Will Expand Further As Soldiers Leave

    If that Embassy is ever attacked then it is my hope that NATO forces respond very quickly and very aggressively.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Ostensibly to nail Saddam Hussein, which was quite legitimate (and made more sense than Gadaffi at this point) but I feel it also allowed the United States and its Allies to gain a foothold in the Middle East to have an insight, literally and figuratively, about what's going on there.

    Massive U.S. Embassy In Iraq Will Expand Further As Soldiers Leave

    If that Embassy is ever attacked then it is my hope that NATO forces respond very quickly and very aggressively.
    No, Saddam was a noboody and a limited threat. He was contained, and not growing, had a crumbling infrastructure and no way to even house wmds. nothing has been more reckless than invading Iraq.

    Unlike Iraq, Obama did not on his own push to invade Lybia.

    As for the embassy, a huge expense that assures we will always be there, thus under risk, seems kind of foolish to me. To stay where we're not wanted, to subject ourselves to being in harms way for speciulative reasons, seems rather like a bad investment to me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Kind of like saying winning is winning. Really doesn't explain much. When will you know we've won? What will be the critieria? The metrics?
    In WWI they called it a draw and the Germans were back 20 years later and even greater carnage resulted. They did not allow the same thing to happen in WWII. Both Japan and Germany were beaten to the point where, 65 years later, they still don't want to go near a weapon.

    That has to happen with anyone who does harm against the United States or any of its Allies. It is over quickly and those on the receiving end get peaceful for a long while after the very clear point is made.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, Saddam was a noboody and a limited threat. He was contained, and not growing, had a crumbling infrastructure and no way to even house wmds. nothing has been more reckless than invading Iraq.
    That's what is called "historical revisionism".

    Unlike Iraq, Obama did not on his own push to invade Lybia.
    Really? Who did the pushing?

    As for the embassy, a huge expense that assures we will always be there, thus under risk, seems kind of foolish to me. To stay where we're not wanted, to subject ourselves to being in harms way for speciulative reasons, seems rather like a bad investment to me.
    In fact it is an excellent investment and makes full use use of the US advantage of high technology.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In WWI they called it a draw and the Germans were back 20 years later and even greater carnage resulted. They did not allow the same thing to happen in WWII. Both Japan and Germany were beaten to the point where, 65 years later, they still don't want to go near a weapon.

    That has to happen with anyone who does harm against the United States or any of its Allies. It is over quickly and those on the receiving end get peaceful for a long while after the very clear point is made.
    And this means what? Comparing what? Germany is a country, quite capable of surrendering. Islamofascism is not. There is no one to surrender. No one to invade. The ilitary is simply limited in what it can do to fight such a conflict. in fact, it is too large, too cumbersome, too blunt an insturment to be effective.

    Again, I ask as related to this conflict what does winning look like? What are the metrics?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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