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Thread: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That is a very incorrect statement. It is in fact very easy to not be isolationist and instead be non-interventionist.
    What's to prevent another nation, or NGO, from attacking the United States or its people? How would being isolationist resolve problems of self defense?

    Just because the USA does not declare war on others does not mean others will not declare war on them. In fact even openly declaring war is a relic from the past. Why bother?

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Are you saying that you will give Bush credit for bringing the troops home before 2012?
    no, he is no longer in office.....who knows what he would have done......and actually, the iraqis have kicked us out, right?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There was no reason to use the word.
    I used it in a specific context, to address my use of the word in that context.

    "Kind of imperialistic"? Was invading Iraq and dumping Saddam "kind of imperialistic". Now is not the time to be concerned about Americans and their allies being called "arrogant or imperialistic. If schoolyard taunts are going to this Administration's foreign policy then they shouldn't be in the game.
    No, it was a whole lot imperialistic. And it is always time to be concerned about that. I wish we were more concerned about before we set out to be imperialisitic. We have no buisness invading countries with out a clear threat to us.

    Of course it's political! What other legitimate reason could there be, given that there is no way that Iraq is in a position to defend itself from outside influences? I would have preferred the US actually get some of that Iraqi oil the Left has always been claiming was the reason for displacing Saddam then leaving empty-handed, trillions in debt, with someone else picking up the spoils.
    Legitmate? Iraq doesn't want us there. That seems pretty legit to me. You should also worry less about the left, whoever they are, and more about legitmate reasons. Iraq doesn't want us there, bye. We have no legitimate reason to be there, bye.

    No, it has not. You use some of these dictators when they are useful against a greater threat and discard them when they are of no further use. That's the way it works and that's the ways it has to work. What is your alternative?
    Again, imperialistic and a bit arrogant to think any leader is ours to use as we want. And doing so has caused us more than a few points. Without out our support of the Shah of Iran, Iran would look at us a bot differently today.

    There is a great deal of difference between using tyrants and supporting them. This should be clear. And this striving for the "moral high ground", as well as worrying about 'imperialism" or "arrogance" is what has made US foreign policy so inept and patently foolish in recent decades. We can see the slide commence where these silly cliches began.
    Hardly. there really isn't any difference, or least not one worth mentioning. The fact is we can't claim we have a better way when we don't behave any better. Some fear the world too much, and thus are willing to sell out those core values that used to be so popular to spew off about in order to pretend to be safe. I would rather we actually had some core values and tried to live by them.

    The "Libyan people"? How do you know who was behind this revolution? You have no idea who these "Libyan people" are. Do these "Libyan people " have a history of democracy, rule of law, equal rights for all? We do not yet know what the consequences might be, but we do know that there is turmoil in the Middle East and that's it. Withdrawing at ths point in time does not seem a wise decision, and it will be very difficult now for any American leader to get troops back in.
    You miss the point. It is for them to decide, not us.


    Yes, Barrack Obama "led from behind" in Libya (without Congressional approval) and followed the direction of George Bush in Iraq.. Let's see if he tries to get any credit for any of these foreign policy decisions.
    Not quite, he did not invade and occupy. taht was Bush's greatest error. Obama did more than he shoudl ahve, but stopped short of doing what bush did. Some have a bad tendency to see unlike things as the exact same. They are not.


    It's Obama pulling troops out of Iraq, how this decision effects all of the Middle East, how Obama is a disaster as a US President and how the consequences of his ineptness will create long lasting problems everywhere.
    Which has nothing to do with the cmment you responded to. I don't mind going in another direct, but when you link as a response to a comment, I think it should actually address that comment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What's to prevent another nation, or NGO, from attacking the United States or its people? How would being isolationist resolve problems of self defense?

    Just because the USA does not declare war on others does not mean others will not declare war on them. In fact even openly declaring war is a relic from the past. Why bother?
    No one objects to stopping an actual threat of attack. Saying I have no evidence, but I'm going to invade before I do is not at all the same thing. There was no real threat of Iraq attacking us. And invading iraq in no way lessens the likelihood that a few individuals might plan something.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    no, he is no longer in office.....who knows what he would have done......and actually, the iraqis have kicked us out, right?
    I think that's how your enemies will look at it. A recently introduced and suspect democracy was able to kick the Americans out of Iraq. We can see why Iran and its allies are cheering.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Again kiddies...remember this. Even if Obama ends a freaking war, it is somehow bad. Watch fox and read drudge and know, this is a bad thing.


    Sheeple.
    Obama is guaranteed a win in 2012. If you dont agree with me, name who will beat him and why.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Oh and how did that search for WMD's turn out again?
    Obama is guaranteed a win in 2012. If you dont agree with me, name who will beat him and why.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems the cost eight years of the Iraq War was equal to Barrack Obama's stimulus package, or the money given to useless solar energy companies. And while Obama is sticking to the George Bush timetable we do not know if George Bush would have left while the country was still under threat.

    It seems that all this money and worse, all the lives sacrificed, have been in vain. This is no "exit strategy". It is just an exit.
    This is a weak argument. What you're really saying is America should stay in a protracted war where there's no clear way to get out other than killing our enemy. It's been SEVEN YEARS, man! Haven't they - the insurgants - proven by now that we can't kill them all?

    And as much as you'd like to think that President Obama's decision to leave Iraq is just "an exit," I say it's better to bring our troops home than to place them in "an indefinite no-win scenario" where the body count will only go higher and higher and there's really nothing for us to gain other than our pride. Again, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" was declared SEVEN YEARS AGO! We got Saddam. A new Iraqi government is now in place. We've spread democracy in Iraq as far as we're gonna get it. This new Iraqi government has exercised it's soverign might and has asked us to leave because we refuse to place our servicemen under their legal system. They have determined that our protective services are no longer desired or required. We've offered to stay longer, but were rebuffed. How can you defend us staying there under these circumstances?

    You're concerned what we should do if Iraq falls under the influence of another radical regime. i've got an answer: NOTHING! The Iraqi government has made their decision. Unless the threat of violence and terrorism spreads across the oceans and once again lands upon our soil, I say it's their problem to deal with, not ours. It's beyond time to bring our troops home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I think that's how your enemies will look at it. A recently introduced and suspect democracy was able to kick the Americans out of Iraq. We can see why Iran and its allies are cheering.
    If we're to worry about how every unfriendly nation thinks of us, we may as well invade every country on the planet! This is just a childish, backwards way of thinking...playground mentality. Besides, Iran can't do anything to us. Their most advanced nuclear technology is over 50 behind ours. They have no Navy to speak off, no formidable Air Force and no long-range inter-continnental ballistic missle capability.

    To put this perceived threat in perspective: If the best Iran could do is sneak a point man into our country to hire a hitman to assassinate a foreign dignitary, I say we have nothing to worry about from this country.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-26-11 at 04:34 PM.

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Are we actually bringing them home, or are we merely moving to neighboring countries?

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    Re: Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    The Obama administration has been working hard since at least July 2011 to make sure that there was going to be a residual force left behind after the of 2011. They failed with their negotiation. Instead of being honest, Obama chalks this up as one of his campaign promises. This is flat-out dishonesty.
    So, he's taking credit for something that for all practical purpose should be viewed as a formality...tying up loose ends so to speak. And?

    Wasn't it your side who said he "owns" this Presidency now along with everything that comes with it? Granted, "blame Bush" does get alittle old...except when it's perfectly justifiable to remind people where most of our nation's problems originated over the last decade.

    But...

    The negotiations were strained following WikiLeaks’ release of a diplomatic cable that alleged Iraqi civilians, including children, were killed in a 2006 raid by American troops rather than in an airstrike as the U.S. military initially reported...

    That cable was released by WikiLeaks in May, 2011, and, as McClatchy put it at the time, “provides evidence that U.S. troops executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old infant, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence, during a controversial 2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi.” The U.S. then lied and claimed the civilians were killed by the airstrike...

    In other words, whoever leaked that cable cast light on a heinous American war crime and, by doing so, likely played some significant role in thwarting an agreement between the Obama and Maliki governments to keep U.S. troops in Iraq and thus helped end this stage of the Iraq war.
    ...can we blame Bush for this one? Please???
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-26-11 at 04:47 PM.

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