Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 64 of 64

Thread: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

  1. #61
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,324

    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Bush ran on a platform of of returning this phony surplus to the tax payers. the media did not bother to report on the truth.

    So the really big question is why did the dems, repubs, and media all go along with this lie?
    Because we have turned into a "gimme" society. Politicians or media either are reluctant to buck the will of the populist voice.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #62
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now to say that the 90% of those he says he surveys, you don't know if they agree with increased government expenditure, or tax cuts, or both, now do you?
    Correct. But we *do* know that they favor economic stimulus via deficit spending, which was my original point. There is probably a bit more disagreement over what the exact components of that stimulus should be, but Keynesian stimulus in itself is widely accepted by economists. Economists have very little appetite for austerity or budget-balancing measures in the middle of a recession.

    Because the question is too broad.
    It's not too broad, it just answers a different question than the one you want to focus on. Whether we should use tax cuts or spending increases to stimulate the economy, is a very different debate than whether we should stimulate the economy at all or introduce austerity measures.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-24-11 at 02:03 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #63
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,324

    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Correct. But we *do* know that they favor economic stimulus via deficit spending, which was my original point. There is probably a bit more disagreement over what the exact components of that stimulus should be, but Keynesian stimulus in itself is widely accepted by economists. Economists have very little appetite for austerity or budget-balancing measures in the middle of a recession.
    Although I will not dispute that Keynesian models of economics have been the norm for some time now, I think that trend is changing in the face of global failure due largely to the implementation of these so called remedies....Look at Japan, ten years lost with stimulus, after stimulus, and only when they started doing common sense things like austerity did they begin to pull out.

    You are seemingly touting economists as though they are infallible. That I think is a mistake when we see with our own eyes, and feel in our own bank accounts the failure that dolts like Krugman promote as though we are just too stupid to see.

    That economists have little appetite for common sense is no surprise. Ego, hubris, and pure blind adherence to what has over time helped kick the can down the road to this point only serve to have them say that, as libs often do, it is not that it didn't work, but that we weren't allowed to do enough of it.

    No, I think it is time possibly to do both, but in order to keep liberals honest in their negotiations cuts first, then tax policy.

    It's not too broad, it just answers a different question than the one you want to focus on. Whether we should use tax cuts or spending increases to stimulate the economy, is a very different debate than whether we should stimulate the economy at all or introduce austerity measures.
    Oh but it is, it obviously includes tax cuts in the answer, and there is no way to determine how many of the participants answered in the positive to your argument based on tax cuts, rather than stimulus measures promoted by an out of control spending congress. What was the exact question? Wording matters.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #64
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Although I will not dispute that Keynesian models of economics have been the norm for some time now, I think that trend is changing in the face of global failure due largely to the implementation of these so called remedies....Look at Japan, ten years lost with stimulus, after stimulus, and only when they started doing common sense things like austerity did they begin to pull out.
    Japan had a lot of problems that the US doesn't have (and I would argue that they still haven't pulled out of their long-term decline). For one thing, they face a demographic catastrophe as their population is shrinking (and therefore their economy is shrinking). Additionally, they had a central bank that was absolutely terrified of inflation for many years, and so they had widespread deflation which made their already-high debts even worse.

    You are seemingly touting economists as though they are infallible.
    Not at all. But I do have a lot more confidence in economists than I do in politicians.

    Oh but it is, it obviously includes tax cuts in the answer, and there is no way to determine how many of the participants answered in the positive to your argument based on tax cuts, rather than stimulus measures promoted by an out of control spending congress.
    Tax cuts are a form of stimulus, just as increased spending is. Please keep in mind that the concept of using tax cuts to stimulate the economy is a very Keynesian idea, and is based on the same premise that increasing government spending is: By changing our fiscal and monetary policy, we can stimulate aggregate demand and grow the economy.

    Now, whether tax cuts or government spending provide a better form of stimulus is a subject of much debate. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both, and I suspect that the answer depends on the specifics of the proposed tax cuts or proposed spending. But my point is that these things both increase the deficit...and that's OK. Deficit spending (because we're spending more than we're taxing) is exactly the position we should find ourselves in...and in fact we should be doing a lot more of it IMO. Economists largely agree that we need to provide economic stimulus during recessions (as opposed to austerity and budget-balancing), they simply disagree on the exact components of what the stimulus should be.

    What was the exact question? Wording matters.
    "Fiscal policy (e.g., tax cut and/or government expenditure increase) has a significant stimulative impact on a less than fully employed economy." - 90% of economists agree
    "If the federal budget is to be balanced, it should be done over the business cycle rather than yearly." - 85% of economists agree
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •