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Thread: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

  1. #11
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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    "Go out and go shopping"

    Thanks W. That was a great plan.
    Well - read the PDF that accompanies the OP and you'll see that the democrat's potential plan for future 'surplus' wasn't very wise at all - invest in Fannie, Freddi and Mortgage backed securities and Triple-A bonds. . .haha. Yeah - that would have saved us
    A screaming comes across the sky.
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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    The economy was flat on its back after 9-11. It's a testament to Bush that it came back.
    With a jobless recovery (similar to now)? Spending and tax cuts that drove up the deficit (similar to now)? Massive defense spending?

    Interesting that you basically refuse to give Obama the same level of tolerance that you give Bush, yet Obama had a far, far, far worse economic crisis.

    Can we spell partisan hack?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #13
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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    our total debt went up every year. I've been over the proof many times, I've come to understand zombies are all around me and want to believe what they want to believe.
    I think this guy explains it in a manner everyone should get if they actually cared to see the truth.
    The Myth of the Clinton Surplus
    I may be wrong, but, iirc, budget deficit ≠ the debt.

    the budget deficit is a year to year thing and the debt is a running total that has accumulated.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    The economy was flat on its back after 9-11. It's a testament to Bush that it came back.
    We received a stimulus package and were told to go shopping
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    We received a stimulus package and were told to go shopping
    LOL

    Oh yes - Obama's fixed all of our problems.

    In fact: this country's worse off than it was before.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    With a jobless recovery (similar to now)?
    that's funny.



    looking at the chart it doesn't look that terribly similar - except somewhat in length, as the original 2001 Bush response was to depend heavily on tax credits which operate economically like a transfer payment; didn't work for him then, didn't work for him in 2008, didn't work for Obama in 2009, and doesn't seem to have worked for him in 2010 or 2011.

    Spending and tax cuts that drove up the deficit (similar to now)?
    in 2003 Bush actually shifted to emphasize tax rate reductions rather than the gimmicks



    looks like revenue did alright after that. though you are correct that the man spent way too much money.

    Massive defense spending?
    which according to Keynesian economic theory should have been a massive boost, so hey, what are you complaining about?

    Can we spell partisan hack?
    yes. i spell it p-b-r-a-u....

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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I may be wrong, but, iirc, budget deficit ≠ the debt.

    the budget deficit is a year to year thing and the debt is a running total that has accumulated.
    Shhhh.... FoxNews doesn't want that info getting out. Also, they don't want it to get out that even with SS, Clinton was still running a small surplus. Clinton cut spending, raised taxes on the rich and balanced the budget. Economically, he is the greatest prez we've had in the last 50 years.

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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Really? I thought that the capital gains tax was the main tax that the really wealthy paid, and that Clinton cut it?

    The successful Clinton economy was based on tax cuts. No, really.

    ...Reasonable people of all political persuasions will acknowledge that tax cuts worked for Democratic President John Kennedy and Republican President Ronald Reagan. Presidents Kennedy and Reagan oversaw significant reductions of confiscatory tax rates on high earners and taxpayers generally. In both cases, records show that Treasury revenues increased with the rate of investment of the freed assets.

    Often overlooked in the debate over tax policy is the success of the Clinton-era tax reductions -- reductions that, though fairly recent, are unknown to most Americans. That may be no accident.

    The Clinton years provide lessons on the effects of tax increases and decreases... The effects of increasing taxes on Treasury receipts can be seen in the Clinton and Democrat-controlled congressional tax increase of 1993, one of the largest in history. Despite a more robust job market following a recession, the 1993 tax increase didn't accomplish what Democrats expected. The tax increases added very little to treasury receipts despite their magnitude. Reports from the Congressional Budget Office, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Internal Revenue Service all agree.

    In fact, the balanced budgets of the Clinton years didn't occur until after a Republican Congress passed and the president reluctantly signed a 1997 tax bill that lowered the capital gains rate from 28% to 20%, added a child tax credit, and established higher limits on tax exclusion for IRAs and estates...
    I also found this portion interesting:

    ...To find a pure, easily illustrated example of tax decreases boosting the economy and Treasury receipts, one need only look at the current rates on capital gains and dividends. When Congress passed the 15-percent tax rate on capital gains in 2003, and again following the 2006 extension, Democrats protested that large deficits would result...

    For anyone willing to read it, the January 2007 Congressional Budget Office annual report settles any debate. Citing the original CBO forecasts of capital gains tax revenue of $42 billion in 2003, $46 billion in 2004, $52 billion in 2005, and $57 billion in 2006, Democrats who opposed the rate reduction in 2003 claimed that the capital gains tax cut would "cost" the federal treasury $5.4 billion in fiscal years 2003-2006.

    Those forecasts were embarrassingly wrong. The 2007 CBO report revealed that capital gains and dividends tax collections were actually $51 billion in 2003, $72 billion in 2004, $97 billion in 2005, and $110 billion in 2006, the last two years nearly doubling initial forecasts...

    I also could have sworn that Constitutionally Budgets come out of the House of Representatives.....

  9. #19
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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I may be wrong, but, iirc, budget deficit ≠ the debt.

    the budget deficit is a year to year thing and the debt is a running total that has accumulated.
    a budget deficit adds to the debt, a budget surplus would lower the accumulated debt

    Our total debt went up every year, so no real surplus could of existed.

  10. #20
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    Re: What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    a budget deficit adds to the debt, a budget surplus would lower the accumulated debt

    Our total debt went up every year, so no real surplus could of existed.
    The Nation Debt consists of many parts: public debt, intra-governmental debt (and so on).

    What happened with the Clinton Surplus is that Social Security overflow went up (among a few other means of monetary inflow to the gov cauffers) - so they then took that money from SSA and paid down the public portion of the debt.

    When the government uses SSA overflow for any reason it has to pay it back. This is calculated as an increase in intra-governmental debt as it is merely borrowing this money from us right now and later it will pay it back.

    So Clinton's 'surplus' netted an increasing debt which the government would (will) have to pay back later.

    Per the National Debt in it's entirety - that never decreased during his presidency. It slowed a little - but it did not decrease.

    If Clinton's plan kept going it would have continued to rise the Intra-gov debt while using SSA funds (etc) to decrease the Public debt. They, then, would have had to pay down those Intra-gov debts and all the other debts that comprise our government.

    Since all parties in government have since then pushed for numerous spending bills, agency kicks and other such things that have made our debt continuously increase I don't see how anyone would have been able to stop and reverse this ongoing trend of 'spend spend spend' - even Clinton's 'surplus' depended on raising debt in order to pay down debt . . . like pulling out a loan in order to pay off a loan.

    Government must CHANGE it's approach to raking up debt and borrowing money from other countries FIRST. It must also end it's dependence on SS overflow.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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