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Thread: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    I have protested a lot....I always walked in a parade; I never did a sit-in. Here are some things I have protested for:

    * Free Soviet Jews. (Done.)

    * End The Vietnam War. (Done.)

    * Civil Rights. (Done.)

    * Feminisim a la abortion rights, equal pay, etc. (Not done.)

    Can ANYONE tell what the OWS'ers are "protesting"? Against whom do they have a complaint and what do they want done to correct it? What are their demands? Does ANYONE know or do we all just get to infer whatever we like about their intent?

    BTW, I have never broken the law in any protest and IMO, a sit-in at a college president's office is (legally) not comparable to occupying city parks for weeks on end.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    "Reasonable time, place and manner restrictions" is the essence of constitutional government restrictions on freedom of speech or assembly. If the city meets this burden, and IMO, they certainly will, then the OWS'ers lose.
    I think it's very conditional on what you're talking about. A Republic cannot exist without protest, assembly, redress, etc. That overrides convenience of not having campers. Now if they were rioting or assaulting folk or committing crime I can see the necessity to involve government force. But I do believe that protest and assembly must be upheld to their maximum.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Apparently so. They must be very speshell.

    I wouldn't say so. I would support any protest of this nature to stay on public land overnight. It's refreshing to see such dedication to a political cause; whether I agree with it or not.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I wouldn't say so. I would support any protest of this nature to stay on public land overnight. It's refreshing to see such dedication to a political cause; whether I agree with it or not.
    What fukkin' political cause, Ikari?

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think it's very conditional on what you're talking about. A Republic cannot exist without protest, assembly, redress, etc. That overrides convenience of not having campers. Now if they were rioting or assaulting folk or committing crime I can see the necessity to involve government force. But I do believe that protest and assembly must be upheld to their maximum.
    So does the Supreme Court. "Reasonable" limits on time, place and manner is no loosey-goosey, feel-good standard. As you likely recall, the benighted Westboro Baptist Church recently WON on this issue.

    Closing city parks at night IS reasonable. I'd be surprised if it hadn't already been litigated up to at least a few of the Federal Appeals Courts, though as far as I know, not the Supreme Court.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Can ANYONE tell what the OWS'ers are "protesting"? Against whom do they have a complaint and what do they want done to correct it? What are their demands? Does ANYONE know or do we all just get to infer whatever we like about their intent?
    They are protesting runaway corporate profiteering, that sacrifices any responsibility to the community, to truth, to operating under the law, to worker's rights and treatment, and even to the longterm validity of their product in order to jack up profits for the coming quarter and get bigger bonuses for the top owners and executives as quickly as possible. And they are protesting the complicity that many officials in government, from all areas in the political spectrum, have had in protecting the ability of these few beneficiaries of this system to continue to reap these inordinate profits at the expense of everyone else.

    There it is in ninety-nine words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    BTW, I have never broken the law in any protest and IMO, a sit-in at a college president's office is (legally) not comparable to occupying city parks for weeks on end.
    That's not really true. Legally they're pretty much the same. A misdemeanor is a misdemeanor. If the OWS protesters were committing felonies, that would be entirely different. But they aren't.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Okay, I missed a part... What they want to do about it is to regulate these businesses so they can't do that anymore. Impose duties on them to act ethically, with stiffer penalties, throw the corrupt @$$holes who commit these transgressions in prison, and stop allowing corporate money to determine elections.

    Now it's up to 145 words. I hope that's still concise enough.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I have protested a lot....I always walked in a parade; I never did a sit-in. Here are some things I have protested for:

    * Free Soviet Jews. (Done.)

    * End The Vietnam War. (Done.)

    * Civil Rights. (Done.)

    * Feminisim a la abortion rights, equal pay, etc. (Not done.)

    Can ANYONE tell what the OWS'ers are "protesting"? Against whom do they have a complaint and what do they want done to correct it? What are their demands? Does ANYONE know or do we all just get to infer whatever we like about their intent?

    BTW, I have never broken the law in any protest and IMO, a sit-in at a college president's office is (legally) not comparable to occupying city parks for weeks on end.
    Ok, from what I am gathering from a number of comments I've heard, the protesters are intentionally NOT making concrete claims at this point because the minute they do the political propaganda machines will grab it and run.

    By remaining present, and in the public eye, the entire country is TALKING about our problems.

    By encouraging speculation, they are fomenting conversation, creating an informational vacuum that is causing actual discussion of the issues at the core of our current crisis.

    Brilliantly playing our public relations driven system against itself.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Ok, from what I am gathering from a number of comments I've heard, the protesters are intentionally NOT making concrete claims at this point because the minute they do the political propaganda machines will grab it and run.

    By remaining present, and in the public eye, the entire country is TALKING about our problems.

    By encouraging speculation, they are fomenting conversation, creating an informational vacuum that is causing actual discussion of the issues at the core of our current crisis.

    Brilliantly playing our public relations driven system against itself.
    Yes, if generating pointless bull****-laden drama is the ultimate goal.

  10. #90
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    They are protesting runaway corporate profiteering, that sacrifices any responsibility to the community, to truth, to operating under the law, to worker's rights and treatment, and even to the longterm validity of their product in order to jack up profits for the coming quarter and get bigger bonuses for the top owners and executives as quickly as possible. And they are protesting the complicity that many officials in government, from all areas in the political spectrum, have had in protecting the ability of these few beneficiaries of this system to continue to reap these inordinate profits at the expense of everyone else.

    There it is in ninety-nine words.
    Lovely slogan, and congrats on the word count. But how exactly is this slogan to be APPLIED?

    For example:

    * Do they want an amendment to the constitution, overturning Citizens United?

    * Do they want to reform the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and related laws?

    * Do they want some specific action from the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau?

    My point is, whining is not (or should not be) in and of itself the goal of grassroots political action. And what, exactly, do these people think the mayor of Cincinnati can do to achieve any goal pertaining to reform of the corporate laws of each of the 50 states, US banking law, US securities law, etc.?

    That's not really true. Legally they're pretty much the same. A misdemeanor is a misdemeanor. If the OWS protesters were committing felonies, that would be entirely different. But they aren't.
    Legally, a misdemeanor can have a variety of degrees, just like a felony. However, I was speaking of ethics. Sit-ins did not destroy green spaces. They did not destroy irreplaceable natural resources. They did not create a risk of a public health hazard. They did not persist for weeks, on end, without any discernable end-game in mind.

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