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Thread: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    As we've seen across the country throughout the whole "Occupy" debacle. Deputize me and the guys I do medieval re-enactment combat with and we'll clear these parks out in 20 minutes, tops. We'll also improve the local economy by putting money in the local hospital's pockets.
    Always helpful, bull**** internet threats of violence.

    *Sarcastic tone*

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's certainly a lie on a few fronts. The main contention of OWS isn't completely "anti-capitalist" (there are likely those elements in there, but not completely composed there of), the whole of it certain is anti-corporate capitalism; the economic system we currently have (not free market capitalism). I don't sympathize with anti-rich sentiments either; I sympathize with freedom and liberty and the ability of people to exercise their rights to their maximum. Please don't lie.
    So, where's your sympathy for people who want to use these parks for Fall or Halloween plans? Where's your sympathy who enjoy using the parks for peace and quiet? Where's your sympathy for people like me, who treasure every plant in them?

    I dunno what use you perceive in these OWS events, Ikari; I swear I just don't. Neither can I understand why you think the laws should be suspended for their benefit. What is so "holy" about gathering together to whine and bitch like a 2 year who needs a nap?

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That insult didn't address the question, did it now? Jesus H. Christ Pinkie, if you're going to quote my post and bitch about it; at least get the subject matter right.
    Why don't we fight this out elsewhere, where we're allowed to take the gloves off?

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I know that. You seem to have missed what I said. Try reading, come back when you figure out what was written.

    BTW, a lie on your part is that you claim I think that the OWS protests are some holy war. I do not. I simply believe in freedom and liberty and thus upholding our rights, including protest and assembly, to their maximum. My contentions on protest are not limited to OWS. It's all protest, dissent, assembly, redress, etc.

    What can I say, I love freedom.
    You seem to miss that by congesting in the park and creating noise, litter, etc. these protestors are infringing on the rights of others -- severely. Do you just not give a damn because taking a baby to see the fall color, reading a book in the peace and listening to birdsong, or walking a trail for exercise isn't "political"?

    Why do you think only SOME people's rights are paramount? Why aren't all the citizens' rights of EQUAL importance?

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    You seem to miss that by congesting in the park and creating noise, litter, etc. these protestors are infringing on the rights of others -- severely. Do you just not give a damn because taking a baby to see the fall color, reading a book in the peace and listening to birdsong, or walking a trail for exercise isn't "political"?

    Why do you think only SOME people's rights are paramount? Why aren't all the citizens' rights of EQUAL importance?
    Don't get me wrong..... this comment isn't intended to be confrontational but.....

    I am still really confused about what RIGHTS of others are being infringed upon by the protesters.

    And in general I agree that public spaces are to be enjoyed by all but a constitutionally protected right... that of the right to peaceable assemble.... trumps your desire (i.e. NOT an enumerated right provided by the US Constitution or that of the Ohio Constitution) for taking a baby to see fall color, reading a book in peace or listening to birdsong.

    As far as I can tell the ONLY right that may possibly apply is the 9th amendment which states "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." But I would advise not going down this road without some critical thought, I believe the pitfalls of trying to argue that the ninth amendment provides this protection is apparent.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Don't get me wrong..... this comment isn't intended to be confrontational but.....

    I am still really confused about what RIGHTS of others are being infringed upon by the protesters.

    And in general I agree that public spaces are to be enjoyed by all but a constitutionally protected right... that of the right to peaceable assemble.... trumps your desire (i.e. NOT an enumerated right provided by the US Constitution or that of the Ohio Constitution) for taking a baby to see fall color, reading a book in peace or listening to birdsong.

    As far as I can tell the ONLY right that may possibly apply is the 9th amendment which states "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." But I would advise not going down this road without some critical thought, I believe the pitfalls of trying to argue that the ninth amendment provides this protection is apparent.
    In brief, I don't mind if these OWSers are in the park during its normal hours. Crowd control, littering laws, etc. will suffice. But camping there is in violation of the law...and tent cities will degrade the park.

    I don't think anyone should be excluded from a public park or preventing from excersizing their constitutional rights...but those rights have limits, which are likewise constitutional.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    In brief, I don't mind if these OWSers are in the park during its normal hours. Crowd control, littering laws, etc. will suffice. But camping there is in violation of the law...and tent cities will degrade the park.

    I don't think anyone should be excluded from a public park or preventing from excersizing their constitutional rights...but those rights have limits, which are likewise constitutional.
    Two things pique my interest here....

    1. Laws don't trump constitutional rights, as a point of order laws are to be gauged as to their constitutionality as such, and in this particular instance, a judge determined that limitation be put in place for the camping... i.e. fines and city ordinance violations occurred.

    2. People on this thread have stated more than a couple times that non-protester right(s) have been infringed upon.... I would like to know which right or rights those are..... breaking the law IS NOT the same as infringing on another citizens rights.

    this is a direct quote from you (not picking on you it was just the closest post):
    You seem to miss that by congesting in the park and creating noise, litter, etc. these protestors are infringing on the rights of others -- severely.
    (bold added by me)
    I only included the 1st sentence... I do not believe I took anything out of context.

    Can we at least admit.... in the effort to have an honest discussion that there is no right of others, as enumerated by either the United States or Ohio Constitutions that the protesters infringed upon.... and if there was I would really like to know where I can research it.

    EDIT: I want to add a third point that just occurred to me. If you dont care if they are there during normal business hours, and are generally upset about the disregard to local law then how does your previous post regarding babies, books, and birdsong relate? It would still be a nuisance to you (presumptively) during normal business hours and the only way to not have this nuisance would to be there illegally after normal business hours (in the event that the protesters respected local ordinances and vacated the park before it closed) in which case you would be violating the exact law you are upset about that they are breaking.
    Last edited by Swit; 10-22-11 at 05:26 AM.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    I have asked this question from Gill several times now

    Now I want to know do we have any rights as Americans that in your opinion are unlimited rights?
    and the latest quasi response


    No right is unlimited if it infringes on the constitutional rights of another..

    Satisfied ??
    You are still avoiding my direct question.

    As an American citizen, do you believe that you have any rights that are unlimited and have no limits or borders that government an legally impose upon them?
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    my question arising from a response from Turtle

    Turtle - now that you are on record as loathing actions which hurt local businesses, do you also feel the same anger and disapproval of outfits such as WalMart who come into towns all across America and hurt local businesses taking away customers, dollars and often driving them right out of business? Its hard to get more harmful to local business that that.

    So how about it?
    NO.....................
    and his answer

    one is unlawful

    one is lawful
    That is simply not the case. People are exercising their rights and you have stated that you disapprove strongly because it is causing local businesses to lose business - sales - revenues. There is not an element of lawlessness or criminality in that. If there was, the local law enforcement authorities would step in and make proper arrests. And in some cases that is what has happened but in a very limited scale involving only a minority of people who are exercising their rights on a daily basis.

    So are you just against the specific loss of business that occurs when suspected acts of criminality happen like the Brooklyn Bridge incident where arrests were made - are are you indeed objecting to these protests in New York and many other cities on a daily basis even without any criminal action taking place simply because in your estimation is leads to local businesses losing sales and revenues?

    Or to put in the affirmative - people are gathered in a park or public place and the authorities are watching to make sure no criminal action takes place. Local businesses complain that the protests are cutting into sales and revenues. According to your statements, should those protests now be stopped because they are hurting local businesses even though the local authorities have no arrested anyone for any criminal offense?
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    The City let this go too far there should have been tickets at the beginning and arrests where ever possible.

    This will end in deaths if it's aloud to continue because the protesters are fools idiots and just plain dumb-asses.

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