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Thread: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

  1. #201
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The law has been the law for as long as I remember. Parks have always had closing hours. These people are violating a reasonable law. Time to start making them pay the fines or put their asses in jail. They are hurting some of the local businesses.
    Turtle - now that you are on record as loathing actions which hurt local businesses, do you also feel the same anger and disapproval of outfits such as WalMart who come into towns all across America and hurt local businesses taking away customers, dollars and often driving them right out of business? Its hard to get more harmful to local business that that.

    So how about it?
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I am now BEYOND confused. On what basis did a federal judge TRO the City of Cincinnati against enforcing tickets to clear its parks after-hours?
    Well, the judge needs to balance two things. The state's interest in having the parking lots empty out at night with the people's interest in free assembly and speech. In this case, the judge found that the people's interests outweighed the state's. Sometimes they find the other way. It's a case by case balancing test. If you just allowed the state to use any pretense they wanted to stop people from assembling and speaking their minds, the freedoms of speech and assembly would be meaningless because, for example, if they didn't like a protest they could just blurt out that it was disrupting business or something and get suppress it. On the other hand, if you let any speech or assembly right always beat out any state interest at all, everything would collapse because, for example, just one person could prevent the state assembly from meeting by protesting on the speaker's dias. So, judges need to balance the interests. In this case I assume he didn't think the state's interest in emptying a parking lot at night was really very significant, where clearly this is a whole lot of speech and assembly going on that is very important to those folks, so that outweighs.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, the judge needs to balance two things. The state's interest in having the parking lots empty out at night with the people's interest in free assembly and speech. In this case, the judge found that the people's interests outweighed the state's. Sometimes they find the other way. It's a case by case balancing test. If you just allowed the state to use any pretense they wanted to stop people from assembling and speaking their minds, the freedoms of speech and assembly would be meaningless because, for example, if they didn't like a protest they could just blurt out that it was disrupting business or something and get suppress it. On the other hand, if you let any speech or assembly right always beat out any state interest at all, everything would collapse because, for example, just one person could prevent the state assembly from meeting by protesting on the speaker's dias. So, judges need to balance the interests. In this case I assume he didn't think the state's interest in emptying a parking lot at night was really very significant, where clearly this is a whole lot of speech and assembly going on that is very important to those folks, so that outweighs.
    You missed the memo....
    They stay was lifted and the police started issuing fines for the camping after the judges official ruling came down.
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You missed the memo....
    They stay was lifted and the police started issuing fines for the camping after the judges official ruling came down.
    Ok. I don't know anything about the specific case, I'm just explaining how the law works for that stuff. The balancing test.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    NO it is not.

    Does your statement about rights being limited apply to all the rights we enjoy as Americans or are there some rights we enjoy that you feel are without limits?
    You are being obtuse. Your rights stop where mine begin.

    If you want to continue to play games, get to whatever the hell point you are trying to make..... otherwise, adios.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You are being obtuse. Your rights stop where mine begin.

    If you want to continue to play games, get to whatever the hell point you are trying to make..... otherwise, adios.
    I am making it perfectly but I strongly suspect you see where it is going. I strongly suspect that you have no compunction telling others that their rights are limited in nature when they mean not so much to you but then will get all righteous and indignant when one of the rights you take extremely seriously is said to have similar limits and reasonable boundaries.

    So how about it. Are you honest enough to say this is true or do you agree that all of the rights we have as Americans have limits and boundaries attached to them?

    Again, here is what you originally said

    The right to assemble and protest is not an unlimited right. There comes a point when other people's rights start being affected, so reasonable restrictions must be taken. These people protesting that their student loans should be forgiven don't have any right to harm others. Their right's don't supersede others.
    So we get the point that you are not exactly a fan of these protests.
    We get the fact that you tell us that the right to assemble is not an unlimited right.
    We get the fact that you tell us that the right to protest is not an unlimited right.

    Now I want to know do we have any rights as Americans that in your opinion are unlimited rights?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-21-11 at 07:23 PM.
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am making it perfectly but I strongly suspect you see where it is going. I strongly suspect that you have no compunction telling others that their rights are limited in nature when they mean not so much to you but then will get all righteous and indignant when one of the rights you take extremely seriously is said to have similar limits and reasonable boundaries.

    So how about it. Are you honest enough to say this is true or do you agree that all of the rights we have as Americans have limits and boundaries attached to them?

    Again, here is what you originally said



    So we get the point that you are not exactly a fan of these protests.
    We get the fact that you tell us that the right to assemble is not an unlimited right.
    We get the fact that you tell us that the right to protest is not an unlimited right.

    Now I want to know do we have any rights as Americans that in your opinion are unlimited rights?
    No right is unlimited if it infringes on the constitutional rights of another..

    Satisfied ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Turtle - now that you are on record as loathing actions which hurt local businesses, do you also feel the same anger and disapproval of outfits such as WalMart who come into towns all across America and hurt local businesses taking away customers, dollars and often driving them right out of business? Its hard to get more harmful to local business that that.

    So how about it?
    NO.....................

    one is unlawful

    one is lawful



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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    The only groups that have unlimited rights are those groups that do not allow their rights to be limited. It's a very simple concept. It's always been that way in the US. We're a nation of laws. A few billion laws would be my guess. Sometimes you just have to ignore a small number of laws to be able to exercise your rights.

    Please leave the Rainbow Hippies out of this. Your city will be burned to the ground by young men with military style haircuts.
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    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No right is unlimited if it infringes on the constitutional rights of another..

    Satisfied ??
    Fair enough... but in the context of this thread can you explain exactly which right(s) of non-protesters were being infringed upon?

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