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Thread: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

  1. #121
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    One more time:

    A TRO, especially against a government act, is an extraordinary remedy. Ergo, it is by defintion not the "usual remedy".

    The standard for granting one is not that the moving party has asserted his constitutional rights are being affected.

    They have to show (1) irreparable harm will occur if the TRO is not granted. Having to wait two weeks is not "irreparable harm".

    They also have to show (2) a substantial likelihood that they will prevail on the merits. "A snowball's chance in hell" is not a "substantial likelihood".

    In protest being force to abdicate the protest for a few weeks is irreparable harm. From what you percieved as "a snowball's chance in hell", others apparently (and those who apparently have careers in law and are judges and such) thought there was at least enough merit to consider the arguments. The people must always be able to redress the government.

    This all seemed nice and open in our system as a proper check on law being executed against the rights of the individual. They even ruled the way you wanted. You can arbitrarily set times in a park and claim no one can be there during said times (with no constraint on how one defines those times) to infringe upon assembly and protest rights. I don't see what the big deal here is other than the fact that so many people are blindly against OWS that they are near the mouth foaming stage perpetually. It's protest, protest is good for a healthy Republic. We must protect it and uphold it to its maximum.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #122
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    [COLOR="#0000CD"]First tell me, who's doing any actual talking? The OWSers are not communicating with me by any means other than the signs they're carrying. These OWers did not want the reporter to sit in on their meeting with the city or see their proposed settlement agreement. Apparently, what they want is a big, fat secret.
    It's a protest, they're all talking. What are they protesting against? They are protesting the massive entanglement of State and Corporate. The unfair advantage shared by specific market entities through government force and funded through tax payer dollar. What we have now is Corporate Capitalism, and that's what they are protesting. I don't think you're being very honest with this subject.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    The bull**** seems to be coming from you.
    Ikari, I could care less if you use such language towards me. But it is hypocritical of you to demand civility from others and then toss these verbal turds at me.

    I dunno why you wanna go all ad hominem on my ass, but hey, I'm wearing my big girl panties. I just think if you join a race to the bottom you should be prepared to accept the low standards you set for all posts, including ones responding to you.

    Unless you feel you are somehow more deserving of civility than I?

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a protest, they're all talking. What are they protesting against? They are protesting the massive entanglement of State and Corporate. The unfair advantage shared by specific market entities through government force and funded through tax payer dollar. What we have now is Corporate Capitalism, and that's what they are protesting. I don't think you're being very honest with this subject.
    Again with the ad hominem?

  5. #125
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    [COLOR=#0000cd]Ikari, I could care less if you use such language towards me. But it is hypocritical of you to demand civility from others and then toss these verbal turds at me.
    You threw it at me first. What the hell is your damned problem? You think you can just say my arguments are bull**** and then if I return the favor start crying cause I asked Caine (who is someone I have respect for and why I asked him not to immediately jump on the insult wagon) not to start with insult.

    Jesus Christ. If you can't take it, don't dish it. And is this deflection all you have left for your arguments here?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #126
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Again with the ad hominem?
    No, I do not think you are being very honest with this subject. The fact that you can't "figure out" what's being protested or what people are saying in protest reeks of dishonesty because it's so clear as day as to what they are protesting.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #127
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In protest being force to abdicate the protest for a few weeks is irreparable harm. From what you percieved as "a snowball's chance in hell", others apparently (and those who apparently have careers in law and are judges and such) thought there was at least enough merit to consider the arguments. The people must always be able to redress the government.

    This all seemed nice and open in our system as a proper check on law being executed against the rights of the individual. They even ruled the way you wanted. You can arbitrarily set times in a park and claim no one can be there during said times (with no constraint on how one defines those times) to infringe upon assembly and protest rights. I don't see what the big deal here is other than the fact that so many people are blindly against OWS that they are near the mouth foaming stage perpetually. It's protest, protest is good for a healthy Republic. We must protect it and uphold it to its maximum.
    "Enough merit to consider their arguments" gets you inside the federal courthouse; it does NOT get you a TRO. "Substantial likelihood" is akin to the "clear and convincing" standard of proof....it's more than a 50/50 chance, which these plaintiffs can almost certainly not show. It's approximately a 75% or better chance of succeeding at trial.

    I'd remind you that "others in law, including the judge" agreed with you for only a few hours. Apparently, this federal judge realized PDQ that she had screwed up and reversed herself; there is no TRO now.

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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I do not think you are being very honest with this subject. The fact that you can't "figure out" what's being protested or what people are saying in protest reeks of dishonesty because it's so clear as day as to what they are protesting.
    What are their demands? To whom are they directed? How would I gauge whether they had been granted?

    BTW, I have many flaws. Dancing around an issue and obfuscating what my POV is ain't one of them. If you make one more ad hominem attack on me, I will report it to the Mod Squad. You well know this violates the DP TOS, and you well know this is not debate.

    You choose the behavior, you choose the consequences. Just because you wish I did not start this thread or hold the POV I do gives you no speshell dispensation to tank it. There are places on DP where you can vent your spleen towards me; I suggest you avail yourself of them and return to actual debate on this thread.

    JMO, of course.
    Last edited by Pinkie; 10-20-11 at 01:23 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    [COLOR="#0000CD"]"Enough merit to consider their arguments" gets you inside the federal courthouse; it does NOT get you a TRO.
    Apparently in this case, it did.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #130
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    Re: Federal Judge Orders Cincinnati Not To Ticket OWS'ers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I lived in Cincinnati for like 10 years. Trust me, these people will disappoint you and ruin the parkland they occupy. The city's not known as a hotbed of treehuggers.
    Rainbow hippies clean up after others. They take the reaponsibility onto themselves to do so.

    I have my issues with them, they're too "Luddite" for me, for instance.

    But I trust them on this.

    They clean up Gathering sites for two reasons.

    One, they actually care about and respect the land.

    Two, it pisses the Feds off to have nothing to use against them.

    The Feds actually terrorized a community with claims that a fugitive child rapist was at the Gathering.

    He was.

    John Buffalo, old biker-type and head of "security" for the Rainbow, found his ass, tied him up and delivered him to the authorities of the nearest town. Demonstrating to the locals that the Rainbow doesn't harbor scum.

    The Feds were PISSED that he didn't turn him over to them, even though they took custody from the locals immediately. They lost their anti-Rainbow PR campaign to scare the locals.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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