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Thieves preying on fellow protesters(Edited)

Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

TARP was only a cog in the wheel. We are still to this day bailing banks out. Just like with GM much of this was paid back with money from other government programs such as I noted.....giving them money for free and then paying them interest on that money.

most banks have also paid back their tarp money.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I'm laughing at the irony of it. I don't believe taxation is theft. I do think many of the programs taxes are spent on amounts to nothing short of it. These people want their student loans forgiven. I should have to pay for their student loans? That's theft. These people want to stop foreclosures. I should have to pay for someone's decision to buy a house they can't afford? That's theft. Their whole platform reeks of socialism. They're a bunch of snot-nosed kids who've probably never paid a rent bill in their lives. Supported by parents who taught them very carefully that personal responsibility is obsolete.

I believe progressive taxation is theft.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I believe progressive taxation is theft.

Damn straight, it is.

The only justification for the bum taking your $5500 Mac is because you have one and he doesn't.

Same as progressive taxes.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I believe progressive taxation is theft.

Flat tax and consumption tax are regressive taxation though.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

They are under no obligation to pay back the interest we paid them on the money we gave them.
Not the interest, the orig loan amount.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

most banks have also paid back their tarp money.

As I note, in part with other money we gave them.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Not the interest, the orig loan amount.

Big deal. The money came with virtually no interest and we paid them interest on this money. We gave them the money and then paid them interest on it and then they give it back. I'd love to get a deal like that.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Big deal. The money came with virtually no interest and we paid them interest on this money. We gave them the money and then paid them interest on it and then they give it back. I'd love to get a deal like that.

They haven't given it back yet, Obama won't let them. So long as they don't pay back that money in full, Obama gets a say in how those banks who took that money are run/operate.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

We gave them money at basically zero percent interest, paid them interest on that money. We are not going to get that money back.

You are conflating the capital injections from TARP and monetary policy objectives implemented to accurately achieve a target rate. Therefore the whole "we are not going to get that money back" comment is fruitless.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

You are conflating the capital injections from TARP and monetary policy objectives implemented to accurately achieve a target rate. Therefore the whole "we are not going to get that money back" comment is fruitless.

All intertwined bull**** which is why I acknowledge that many of the complaints from OWS is foolish, I support them overall.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

All intertwined bull**** which is why I acknowledge that many of the complaints from OWS is foolish, I support them overall.

My comment still applies; capital injections and interest paid on excess reserves stem from two different objectives. Saying the government will not be repaid for TARP because of interest paid on excess reserves displays gross ignorance in regards to the topic.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

My comment still applies; capital injections and interest paid on excess reserves stem from two different objectives. Saying the government will not be repaid for TARP because of interest paid on excess reserves displays gross ignorance in regards to the topic.

I said we will not be paid back for all the benefits we have provided to Wall Street. That saying that TARP was paid back but ignoring that at least some of that was because of money provided by other government actions is dishonest.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Flat tax and consumption tax are regressive taxation though.
Know they aren't, those types of taxes are actually fair taxes, everyone pays the same thing for the stuff they buy or the income they earn. Anything that isn't equal is BS. I thought the Constitution provided for everyone being treated equally, not fairly, under the law.......my bad. This Country has moved so far away from that simply principle our Founding Fathers would kill themselves if they saw what we have morphed into.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Know they aren't, those types of taxes are actually fair taxes, everyone pays the same thing for the stuff they buy or the income they earn. Anything that isn't equal is BS. I thought the Constitution provided for everyone being treated equally, not fairly, under the law.......my bad. This Country has moved so far away from that simply principle our Founding Fathers would kill themselves if they saw what we have morphed into.

I too think the founding fathers would not like what they see now in the death throws of our Republic. Though I think the progressive income tax may not be the highest thing up there on the list.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I said we will not be paid back for all the benefits we have provided to Wall Street. That saying that TARP was paid back but ignoring that at least some of that was because of money provided by other government actions is dishonest.

No it is not. Interest paid on excess reserves helps the Fed achieve its target rate. TARP was a capital injection, which should not be confused with the monetary base or excess reserves.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

No it is not. Interest paid on excess reserves helps the Fed achieve its target rate. TARP was a capital injection, which should not be confused with the monetary base or excess reserves.

As I said, one government program used to pay back another.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Actually, that's the best answer to that question I've ever gotten. And one I'll agree with.

Now for another one...how much of a concentration of owned wealth negatively affects everybody else?

I think we are beginning to see the effects now of something that's been happening for 30 years or so.

"Too big to fail" is a clear example of what happens when all the eggs are in too few baskets.

I personally am not money driven. I have an "enough". A point where I don't habe a need for more. I'm not competitive. I'm equipped to compete, I just don't have any interest in doing so.

So I really don't understand the financially motivated, those who will acquire as much as they can. And I have an active dislike for those who take everything they can get, even when doing so results in someone else having less.

There is a lot of this activity in our system as it stands right now. Many places where those who decide who gets what from whatever the enterprise is, play the old "One for you. Two for me. One for you. One, two, three for me." Taking all the pie created by everybody in the enterprise for themselves.

I'm not a "pure" liberal, more Lockean than most with an excessive expression of the genetic compassion trait. But I know LOTS of liberals.

The meme that the left wants to rob the rich to give to the lazy poor (meaning themselves in most versions) is simply false. There are some unrealistic ideas on the left to be sure, but the same can be said of the right.

MOST of the liberals I know, when they speak of greed are talking about the EXCESSES of capitalism. NOT capitalism itself.

As I see it, capitalism is a tool. It is a manmade thing, designed when the worlds resources were considered functionally unlimited. An infinite Commons, if you will. The world is full now, and I think this is one of the factors we are dealing with. A finite and wholly owned Commons.

It is also inherently concentrative, it IS the amassing of money (capital).

Hell, the computer can be demonstrated as a major culprit, because most of the activities that are problematic depend almost entirely ON computers. Digital money moves WAY faster than capital did when capitalism was devised.

Simply put, the system is being gamed. For far too long, capitalism in our country has been demonstrably becoming a BETTER tool for a few than it is for the many. If it is operating properly, all participants in an economy who participate fully should see about the same AMOUNT of improvement in their lot over time. Not the same amount of money, but the same general improvement in each individuals situation. Everybody 10% or whatever better off than they were last year, more or less, ymmv, abberrations not included.

This ISNT what we are seeing, and given the concentrative nature of capitalism, its not surprising.

Consider the couple trillion being withheld from the economy right now. That's not millions of small businessmen. That's a relative handful of players who own huge pools of capital. And its having what I expect is a mathematically demonstrable negative effect on the economy, which I believe is intentional and is being done to apply pressure on voters to demand that taxes and regulations be eliminated. None of which will offset labor cost differential enough to make a bit of difference.

Not too coherent but you should be able to get the gist, feel free to ask for clarification.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

It ain't your money, babe. Hugo Chavez is grabbing as much of what's left of the private econony down there as fast as he can, and Venezuelans aren't any better off.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Venezuala's condition under Chavez is deplorable. Shortages of food and terrible hosptial conditions.. Eh, that's a thread for another time.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I more less get the gist of what you are saying, but I also don't believe that economics is a zero sum game. More resources are created every day. Someone who owns all the wealth today doesn't mean that more wealth isn't going to be created tomorrow. I WILL agree that there are machinations in place to almost ensure that tomorrows wealth gets hoarded by today's economic winner...and it is THAT that I protest...not greed, nor the excesses of greedy men.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

I think we are beginning to see the effects now of something that's been happening for 30 years or so.

"Too big to fail" is a clear example of what happens when all the eggs are in too few baskets.

I personally am not money driven. I have an "enough". A point where I don't habe a need for more. I'm not competitive. I'm equipped to compete, I just don't have any interest in doing so.

So I really don't understand the financially motivated, those who will acquire as much as they can. And I have an active dislike for those who take everything they can get, even when doing so results in someone else having less.

There is a lot of this activity in our system as it stands right now. Many places where those who decide who gets what from whatever the enterprise is, play the old "One for you. Two for me. One for you. One, two, three for me." Taking all the pie created by everybody in the enterprise for themselves.

I'm not a "pure" liberal, more Lockean than most with an excessive expression of the genetic compassion trait. But I know LOTS of liberals.

The meme that the left wants to rob the rich to give to the lazy poor (meaning themselves in most versions) is simply false. There are some unrealistic ideas on the left to be sure, but the same can be said of the right.

MOST of the liberals I know, when they speak of greed are talking about the EXCESSES of capitalism. NOT capitalism itself.

As I see it, capitalism is a tool. It is a manmade thing, designed when the worlds resources were considered functionally unlimited. An infinite Commons, if you will. The world is full now, and I think this is one of the factors we are dealing with. A finite and wholly owned Commons.

It is also inherently concentrative, it IS the amassing of money (capital).

Hell, the computer can be demonstrated as a major culprit, because most of the activities that are problematic depend almost entirely ON computers. Digital money moves WAY faster than capital did when capitalism was devised.

Simply put, the system is being gamed. For far too long, capitalism in our country has been demonstrably becoming a BETTER tool for a few than it is for the many. If it is operating properly, all participants in an economy who participate fully should see about the same AMOUNT of improvement in their lot over time. Not the same amount of money, but the same general improvement in each individuals situation. Everybody 10% or whatever better off than they were last year, more or less, ymmv, abberrations not included.

This ISNT what we are seeing, and given the concentrative nature of capitalism, its not surprising.

Consider the couple trillion being withheld from the economy right now. That's not millions of small businessmen. That's a relative handful of players who own huge pools of capital. And its having what I expect is a mathematically demonstrable negative effect on the economy, which I believe is intentional and is being done to apply pressure on voters to demand that taxes and regulations be eliminated. None of which will offset labor cost differential enough to make a bit of difference.

Not too coherent but you should be able to get the gist, feel free to ask for clarification.

The problems that we may have with the current capitalist system are not computers and some folks being "too capitalist".

Its government, and most particularly socialists and nanny state folks like that most inept Obama. And the OWS flea-baggers.

They are the enemy of the engine of capitalism.

You said the following earlier:

I actually don't want them to take anything the wealthy already have.

Id just like to see mechanisms in place to prevent them from grabbing almost all of the new wealth in the first place.

Leave some fruit on the trees for someone else.

Wealth is not zero sum. There is nothing between you and "new wealth", except an onerous government of liberal socialist nanny-state leeches, like the OWS folks and their Obama puppet masters, who would confiscate what you might be able to create for yourself.
 
Stop the press there is a thief in New York.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

Child labor laws,

Teenagers can't get a real job and learn how to actually work, so when they turn 18 they don't have the first clue how to hold down a job, nor what is expected of them.


environmental laws,

Alot of which do nothing more than kill jobs and/or jack up the cost of doing business.


labor laws, etc.

Like the laws that force workers to join a union, whether they want to, or not? I loved it, when I drove over the road, when I had to actually pay a fork lift operator to unload my truck. They only accepted cash and refused to give me a receipt. That was AWESOME!!
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

You must be joking. This type of mentality is of the most dangerous to the nation; to believe the rule of law is arbitrarily applicable based on ones political beliefs.

If you truly believe that taxation is theft, reality will not treat you very kindly.

It's the basis for Liberalism.
 
Re: Thieves teach OWS protestors about redistribution, the hard way

You didn't ask about wealth inequality. You asked for successful government intervention into the markets. Those were successful government interventions into the market.

Like when the government interveined in the housing market?
 
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