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Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

Lord Tammerlain said:
Do you have some links showing the military presence of China in East Africa I would definately like to read them
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:shrug: the stuff is out there, I hope you'll understand if I feel unwilling to start spouting off specifics without citing them from the web.

China's economic invasion of Africa: A million Chinese people, from engineers to chefs, have moved to work in Africa in the past decade

The Chinese Government is trying to lock down East African oil for it's burgeoning domestic market, and has been moving in to take their farmland and produce as well. When Libya went down they were able to performa long-range NEO (basically, withdrawal of your citizens from another nation) of a nation in which they had no less than 30,000 people. Coming strictly on the unclass side we found their demonstration of that capability very interesting.

As for Russia, it has lost the ability to truely project power beyond its immediate boarder and even then it has difficulties. The Georgian and Chechnya conflicts show that very well. It would be able to attack and beat countries of Georgian size, and maintain control over them, but ones like Azerbijian(sp) or eastern european countrieds ( excluding Estonia, Lithuania(sp) and Latvia) it would not be able to, No new weapon systems have been developêd and deployed from the end of the USSR, any new systems are seeing a large amount of problems.
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yes but quantity has a quality all it's own; and the comparative quality of its' neighbor states is no better. Certainly Russia couldnt' go up against the Chinese, but I think it's limits in East Europe would be mostly whatever support the West would be willing to lend.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Do you have some links showing the military presence of China in East Africa I would definately like to read them

As for Russia, it has lost the ability to truely project power beyond its immediate boarder and even then it has difficulties. The Georgian and Chechnya conflicts show that very well. It would be able to attack and beat countries of Georgian size, and maintain control over them, but ones like Azerbijian(sp) or eastern european countrieds ( excluding Estonia, Lithuania(sp) and Latvia) it would not be able to, No new weapon systems have been developêd and deployed from the end of the USSR, any new systems are seeing a large amount of problems.
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Enjoy.......

Chinese in Sudan: Army of Workers, or Army?

BBC NEWS | Africa | China 'is fuelling war in Darfur'

China puts '700,000 troops' on Sudan alert - Telegraph
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: the stuff is out there, I hope you'll understand if I feel unwilling to start spouting off specifics without citing them from the web.

China's economic invasion of Africa: A million Chinese people, from engineers to chefs, have moved to work in Africa in the past decade

The Chinese Government is trying to lock down East African oil for it's burgeoning domestic market, and has been moving in to take their farmland and produce as well. When Libya went down they were able to performa long-range NEO (basically, withdrawal of your citizens from another nation) of a nation in which they had no less than 30,000 people. Coming strictly on the unclass side we found their demonstration of that capability very interesting.



yes but quantity has a quality all it's own; and the comparative quality of its' neighbor states is no better. Certainly Russia couldnt' go up against the Chinese, but I think it's limits in East Europe would be mostly whatever support the West would be willing to lend.
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The link provided shows China's economic presence in Africa not military


As for Russia, it took if I recall correcty about a third of its ground forces to take on Georgia, and it lost a significant number of jets in doing so. When going into Grozny it suffered massive loss's leading to the decision to shell the city to bits. Its planes are old, its navy is rusting, and its ground forces are poorly trained and poorly motivated
 
apdst said:
Enjoy.......

Chinese in Sudan: Army of Workers, or Army?

BBC NEWS | Africa | China 'is fuelling war in Darfur'

China puts '700,000 troops' on Sudan alert - Telegraph
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No offense but those are some of the most idiotic articles I have seen in a long time

The first shows the number of Chinese workers presently in Africa claiming that they have been in the Chinese military (it has a draft) makes them part of the Chinese military today

The second is showing Chinese military equipment which was sold to various countries not actual Chinese soldiers and military

The last makes a claim in its title and fails to back it up. What proof of 700 000 Chinese troops did it have were in Sudan at the time? The Chinese army is less then 3million, it would not place 25 % in Sudan
 
Kandahar said:
Because we have the ability to do a lot of good at very little cost.
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Is that our new liberal foreign policy? We will only go to places where we have no national interests and we can tell the American people that it won't cost very much?

Kandahar said:
The costs of intervening in Syria are far higher than in Uganda (i.e. we'd be fighting against an established government instead of a criminal gang), and the benefits are far less certain (i.e. everyone hates the LRA and the world would unarguably be better off without them, whereas it isn't clear who/what would replace the Assad regime in Syria).
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So under the one term Marxist president Obama our foreign policy will be to only do something if it can be done at little cost?
Should we destroy the mullahs and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in Iran over their act of war? It would only cost a half dozen round trips from two squadrons of B2s? And there we do have a national interest.
 
I'm really impartial to the African situation. While I think we should do something to help them, I don't know what we can do to help them. It seems they are doomed to the bad life.
 
Misterveritis said:
Is that our new liberal foreign policy? We will only go to places where we have no national interests and we can tell the American people that it won't cost very much?
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As I already stated, I'm not opposed to intervening in places where we have national interests at stake. But there should still be a cost/benefit analysis, regardless of why we're intervening. It doesn't make any sense to intervene in places where the risk is disproportionately higher than the reward.

So under the one term Marxist president Obama our foreign policy will be to only do something if it can be done at little cost?
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Not necessarily at little cost (although that would certainly be a step in the right direction). But the costs should not exceed the benefits.

Should we destroy the mullahs and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in Iran over their act of war? It would only cost a half dozen round trips from two squadrons of B2s? And there we do have a national interest.
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Umm no, that is a classic case of the costs GROSSLY outweighing the benefits. If you think we could "destroy the mullahs" with a few air strikes (and that it would unquestionably be a benefit to the world) you are dreaming. You don't go to war with well-established governments of large countries for uncertain benefits and dubious reasons. Iran is a situation that begs for caution. Fighting the LRA has few of the costs and few of the consequences, and would unarguably be beneficial for the world.
 
Obama will bring back the draft to feed his wars.
 
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
 
whysoserious said:
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
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I'm so split on this one, I think if there is a definition for Morally grey, this is it lol.
 
whysoserious said:
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
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I'd say so. some people just need killin.
 
Kandahar said:
Umm no, that is a classic case of the costs GROSSLY outweighing the benefits. If you think we could "destroy the mullahs" with a few air strikes (and that it would unquestionably be a benefit to the world) you are dreaming. You don't go to war with well-established governments of large countries for uncertain benefits and dubious reasons. Iran is a situation that begs for caution. Fighting the LRA has few of the costs and few of the consequences, and would unarguably be beneficial for the world.
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They are already at war with us. Three to four hundred JDAMs, 300-400 TLAMs all intended to hit their targets at about the same time would do wonders for Iran's attitude. If we could destroy every building important to the Iranian regime in one week's worth of night strikes, I think we would set them back and reap the benefits of the rest of the world deciding they had better not piss us off.
 
whysoserious said:
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
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The one term Marxist president Obama said this was a national security issue. So given that you stand with the president what is the national interest? Are you willing to go do your part?
 
whysoserious said:
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
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But, we're helping the people who are doing some of the mass rape and murder. We won't be doing anything but taking the stripes off one skunk and putting them on another.
 
apdst said:
But, we're helping the people who are doing some of the mass rape and murder. We won't be doing anything but taking the stripes off one skunk and putting them on another.
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Surely it's better to have but one group raping and murdering that is indebted to you than to have two groups doing the same with no means of control at all on the actions?
 
whysoserious said:
I do not think the right wing has any room to complain unless we end up in a 8-year+ war. If this ends up being just a one or two month campaign that saves thousands of lives... well, I'd say good call. We are not the world police, that's for sure, but ending mass rape and murder in a territory could be considered a good deed.
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Where is NATO on this? Hmmmm?
 
I don't know. The region needs help from these madmen. Who ya gonna call if not us? We're in the military business.
 
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