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Thread: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah! Sure!
    You're such a waste of time.

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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You think things are going to be different in Uganda? All we're doing is killing one pack of assholes, so another pack of assholes can gain more power. We won't be preventing anything. The atrocities will still be committed, just not by the LRA.
    I think you misunderstand what the LRA does exactly. They aren't exactly a rebel group that is at war with the government to gain political power...at least not in the traditional sense. They're more like a marauding band of criminals that murders, rapes, kidnaps, and steals from whoever they can, whenever they can. Sure, they'll fight the government troops when they have to and they ostensibly have some weakly-followed political agenda, but they prefer to attack defenseless villages for no reason and then run off into the jungle with the spoils of war (both resources and people) after committing some of the worst atrocities on earth.

    So destroying them doesn't exactly help "another pack of assholes gain more power," it just helps secure the area.

    Based on what logic? The government troops have committed atrocities, just not as many atrocities as the LRA?
    Many governments (including our own) have committed atrocities. But the government of Uganda isn't going anywhere, whereas the LRA can be wiped out with minimal commitment on the part of the United States. A commitment which we should have provided years ago.

    Ever hear of the Contras? You people are still beating Reagan up over that. The Uganda op is nothing but a repeat of history.
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    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-15-11 at 08:54 PM.
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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    I've got mixed feelings. Does someone need to step up and try to stop the slaughter in Uganda, Sudan, Somalia, et.al.? Hell yes. But why does it always have to be us? Why? Our military is stretched thinner than sushi parchment, we're broke, and again we're donning our red capes and blue tights, singing, "Here we come to save the day!!"

    Meanwhile, every other "civilized country" on the planet... we're the uncivilized ones, don'tcha know, because of that pesky death penalty... just shrug off the slaughter in Africa that has been going on for decades with a so-sad, too-bad attitude. And the minute we get boots on the ground over there, other countries will be making snarky remarks in the UN about America playing cowboy again.

    There's a poll in the Poll forum asking, "Is America Arrogant?" The consensus is hell, yes. I agree. But frankly, how can we not be arrogant when every time there's a crisis, we see refuges with tears streaming down their cheeks holding signs that say "America help us" and the rest of the world kinda sits back with a lifted brow, as if waiting for us to take care of business.

    Do I hope a small contingent of American advisors can bring peace to a barbaric tribal region with an illiterate populace and a cultural belief in witch doctors and human sacrifice? Of course I do, but it's not going to happen. And I take no comfort from this notion of being purely "advisors". That's how we started in Viet Nam, remember?

    Then there's the Balkans, where I was thrilled to see the forced stoppage of genocide and ethnic cleansing, only to realize two decades later than nothing had changed, except that there was yet another piece of the planet being held together by the presence of UN "peacekeepers", many of whom are as vicious and corrupt as the "enemy" that had been vanquished. The moment the UN leaves the Balkans, war will explode again. The same goes for Iraq, Afghanistan and yes, Central Africa as well.

    When people are determined to slaughter each other for whatever reason... tribal, religious, power vacuum... we can forestall it, but we cannot eliminate it. Meanwhile, it will be another plot of soil upon which American blood will be spilled.

    My fervent hope is that the mission will be limited to one thing: Hunting down and eliminating the rebel leaders to temporarily end the massive bloodshed there. But I fear it will become another quagmire of American troops standing between two groups of people determined to annihilate each other, and a finger-pointing world saying, "Look, America failed again."

    Time will tell. I am not optimistic.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 10-15-11 at 09:22 PM.

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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think you misunderstand what the LRA does exactly. They aren't exactly a rebel group that is at war with the government to gain political power...at least not in the traditional sense. They're more like a marauding band of criminals that murders, rapes, kidnaps, and steals from whoever they can, whenever they can. Sure, they'll fight the government troops when they have to and they ostensibly have some weakly-followed political agenda, but they prefer to attack defenseless villages for no reason and then run off into the jungle with the spoils of war (both resources and people) after committing some of the worst atrocities on earth.

    So destroying them doesn't exactly help "another pack of assholes gain more power," it just helps secure the area.



    Many governments (including our own) have committed atrocities. But the government of Uganda isn't going anywhere, whereas the LRA can be wiped out with minimal commitment on the part of the United States. A commitment which we should have provided years ago.



    ecf9352d-0717-413e-98a4-58bad519ec7b.jpg
    Which sets them apart from the murdering, marauding, raping, kidnapping, stealing government troops, how?

    So destroying them doesn't exactly help "another pack of assholes gain more power," it just helps secure the area.
    Sure, it helps secure the area...so the surviving pack of assholes can have their way with things, like Egypt and Libya.
    Last edited by apdst; 10-15-11 at 09:31 PM.
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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I mean "political reasons" in the sense of doing something that advances the interests of the US government in some material way. I think those types of missions are more prone to mission creep, because our elected officials and military commanders often don't want to honestly state the mission objectives in the first place. Our recent foray into Libya was a good example of mission creep, and the humanitarian justifications were baloney used to disguise the fact that the US government simply wanted to get rid of Gaddafi for our own geopolitical reasons.
    I don't dispute that the US government has undertaken military missions for alterior motives. Iraq, and to a lesser extent, Afghanistan is evidence of that. However, Libya is a whole 'nother matter. The US did not lead that action. France, Britain and Spain... all of whom get a large amount of oil from Libya... spearheaded NATO involvement in that. The US was a reluctant participant, and we've done very little since the initial action of using missles and artillary to take out Libya's air defenses so NATO planes, primarly French planes, could carry on in safety. France, Britain and Spain have carried the water for the Libyan mission. If it turns out well, the credit is theirs, not ours.

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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    We enter all wars for political reasons...
    Not really.. Bush seeking revenge for his Dad comes to mind. That was personal..
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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Not really.. Bush seeking revenge for his Dad comes to mind. That was personal..
    You're still dragging that crap around? Really?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    It would behoove you read the article before offering an opinion on someone's assessment who clearly has read it. It quite clearly says troop will be sent to South Sudan.
    Which is a different and separate country from Sudan.
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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I don't dispute that the US government has undertaken military missions for alterior motives. Iraq, and to a lesser extent, Afghanistan is evidence of that. However, Libya is a whole 'nother matter. The US did not lead that action. France, Britain and Spain... all of whom get a large amount of oil from Libya... spearheaded NATO involvement in that. The US was a reluctant participant, and we've done very little since the initial action of using missles and artillary to take out Libya's air defenses so NATO planes, primarly French planes, could carry on in safety. France, Britain and Spain have carried the water for the Libyan mission. If it turns out well, the credit is theirs, not ours.
    Actually, we could look at this in a different light. Both France, Britain, and Spain don't have the power projection to go into Libya. For example "The day after he proposed to take military action against Muammar Qaddafi, British Prime Minister David Cameron’s government said that it would be cutting 11,000 troops from Britain’s armed forces. Just before the war, he also announced that the U.K. would scrap its only aircraft carrier" and "in Libya, where, at least before it abandoned the battlefield, America’s strike aircraft were flying more than one half of the sorties" (Libya Has Exposed The Gap Between U.S. And European Military Power | The New Republic). Thus, the US was needed in Libya as for the Europeans to even intervene in the first place.

    In addition to this, there were CIA agents in Libya aiding the rebels (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/wo...a/31intel.html) and there were also US special ops forces (Are U.S. Troops Already on the Ground in Libya? - Interviews - The O'Reilly Factor - Fox News). The West, but especially America, had a major reason to intervene in Libya as it hurt BRICS nations such as China (China urges Libya to protect investments | Reuters), Russia (Libya, Russia talk up investment cooperation in oil, gas sector | Russia | RIA Novosti) (Libya interested in Russian energy investment — RT), and Brazil (Brazil's business in Libya | Al Jazeera Blogs). By doing this it effectively curbed BRICS influence in Libya and, more importantly, China's influence in Libya. The establishment of a pro-Western government in Libya gives the US a foothold on the continent and gives them the ability to combat Chinese influence in northern Africa.

    Thus, the US, while reluctant to "intervene," had major interests in Libya.

    PS All will not "turn out well" for the Libyan people as the Libyan rebels have been engaging in the ethnic cleansing of black Africans in Libya (Libyan rebel ethnic cleansing and lynching of black people Human rights investigations) (Libyan rebel ethnic cleansing and lynching of black people In These New Times) (Revenge Feeds Instability in Libya - WSJ.com).
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    Re: Obama Sends U.S. Troops to Central Africa to Aid Campaign Against Rebel Group

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    you have a Econ 101 textbook confused with reality.
    not really. simply because you call bailing out large institutions "capitalism" does not make it so. Capitalism isn't about "being in favor of the banks v the little guy" or "being in favor of the little guy v the bank" - it's about being in favor of nobody, and holding all equally to the rule of law and enforcement of contract.

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