• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
71,666
Reaction score
58,042
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Sorry about the title, its the article title name, however I added something a little more specific in parenthesis.

Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll | Swampland | TIME.com

8. ON ANOTHER ISSUE, IS YOUR OPINION OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE TEA PARTY TO HAVE AN OPINION? VERY FAVORABLE 8%
SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 19%
SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 9%
VERY UNFAVORABLE 24%
DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 39%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
Q9. HAS THE THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT HAD A POSITIVE IMPACT ON AMERICAN POLITICS TODAY, A NEGATIVE IMPACT, OR HAS IT HAD LITTLE IMPACT?
BASE: FAMILIAR WITH TEA PARTY (669)
POSITIVE IMPACT 34%
NEGATIVE IMPACT 40%
LITTLE IMPACT 25%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 2%
Q10. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A MEMBER OR FOLLOWER OF THE TEA PARTY, OR NOT?
BASE: FAMILIAR WITH TEA PARTY (669)
YES 11%
NO 88%
NO ANSWER/ DON’T KNOW 1%
Q10. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A MEMBER OR FOLLOWER OF THE TEA PARTY, OR NOT?
YES 6%
NO 93%
NO ANSWER/ DON’T KNOW 1%
Q11. IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. IS YOUR OPINION OF THESE PROTESTS VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE PROTESTS TO HAVE AN OPINION?
VERY FAVORABLE 25%
SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 29%
SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 10%
VERY UNFAVORABLE 13%
DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 23%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%
Q12. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THAT POSITION?
A. WALL STREET AND ITS LOBBYISTS HAVE TOO MUCH INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON
BASE: FAMILIAR WITH PROTESTS (787)
AGREE 86%
DISAGREE 11%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 4%
Q12. DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THAT POSITION?
B. THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR IN THE UNITED STATES HAS GROWN TOO LARGE
BASE: FAMILIAR WITH PROTESTS (787)
AGREE 79%
DISAGREE 17%
NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 3%

There are frustratingly few polls on the occupy wall street protestors, this is the only recent one I have been able to find. What is not surprising coming out of this is that the OWS protestors are more popular at the moment than the tea party. Personally I think this is for two primary reasons.
1. As a population, we like new and shiny political things (basically we are in the honeymoon period for the OWS people)
2. The tea party has gained baggage over the recent budget showdowns, where they are primarily blamed.

Because of these two factors, I am not sure that conservatives should be too worried about the OWS movement as that honeymoon period will end and public opinion will settle to lower levels, basically following the same trend line that the tea party does, but with a different time table (I am not sure of the time table, as it depends on how quickly the movement gains baggage). This is my opinion of course.

Also what the jury is out about is how this dynamic will affect the elections.
 
Last edited:
As a member of the Tea Party Movement I can easily state the folks in this movement are not at all concerned or even interested in what a few hundred stinky college socialists say or do. We came out in droves last November and dramatically altered the political landscape, both in DC and statehouses across the country. We will be back in November of 2012 and will continue our quest to elect people that support a smaller federal government. Nothing has changed since November, actually the economy has become weaker and BO's regulatory czars are more out of control. Nope, the Tea Party folks don't wake up each day and look at polls to see if their beliefs are acceptable to the masses. We are the silent majority, we proved it in 2010 and we will again in 2012.

BTW - when the public wakes up and learns about the level of anti-semitism in the Occupy crowds, the opinion polls will shift in a very big way.
 
As a member of the Tea Party Movement I can easily state the folks in this movement are not at all concerned or even interested in what a few hundred stinky college socialists say or do. We came out in droves last November and dramatically altered the political landscape, both in DC and statehouses across the country. We will be back in November of 2012 and will continue our quest to elect people that support a smaller federal government. Nothing has changed since November, actually the economy has become weaker and BO's regulatory czars are more out of control. Nope, the Tea Party folks don't wake up each day and look at polls to see if their beliefs are acceptable to the masses. We are the silent majority, we proved it in 2010 and we will again in 2012.

BTW - when the public wakes up and learns about the level of anti-semitism in the Occupy crowds, the opinion polls will shift in a very big way.

Q10. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A MEMBER OR FOLLOWER OF THE TEA PARTY, OR NOT?
BASE: FAMILIAR WITH TEA PARTY (669)
YES 11%
NO 88%
NO ANSWER/ DON’T KNOW 1%

I will take actual data over the insistence of an internet post of course.

Also, don't be so quick to dismiss people, this movement does have a large potential of tapping into the general dissatisfaction people are feeling about economic matters. If that happens, its no longer "dirty hippies" but bob down the street.
 
q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say favor the rich, the government’s bank bailout, and the influence of money in our political system. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?
very favorable 25%
somewhat favorable 29%

somewhat unfavorable 10%
very unfavorable 13%
don’t know enough 23%
no answer/don’t know 1%
q12. Do you agree or disagree with that position?
a. wall street and its lobbyists have too much influence in washington
base: familiar with protests (787)
agree 86%
disagree 11%
no answer/don’t know 4%
q12. Do you agree or disagree with that position?
b. the gap between rich and poor in the united states has grown too large
base: familiar with protests (787)
agree 79%
disagree 17%
no answer/don’t know 3%​

It's not often we see numbers like these for much of anything that's political.

Very interesting.
 
q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say favor the rich, the government’s bank bailout, and the influence of money in our political system. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?
very favorable 25%
somewhat favorable 29%

somewhat unfavorable 10%
very unfavorable 13%
don’t know enough 23%
no answer/don’t know 1%
q12. Do you agree or disagree with that position?
a. wall street and its lobbyists have too much influence in washington
base: familiar with protests (787)
agree 86%
disagree 11%
no answer/don’t know 4%
q12. Do you agree or disagree with that position?
b. the gap between rich and poor in the united states has grown too large
base: familiar with protests (787)
agree 79%
disagree 17%
no answer/don’t know 3%​

It's not often we see numbers like these for much of anything that's political.

Very interesting.

Right now people are looking for an outlet for their frustrations for the poor economy in general. The tea party captured their attention for a while and now this is the new thing on the block.

However, most people aren't so ideological that they will attach themselves to any movement for life, so attention will wane after a while.
 
BTW - when the public wakes up and learns about the level of anti-semitism in the Occupy crowds, the opinion polls will shift in a very big way.
I suspect you'll be disappointed in that. I haven't noticed any impression among anyone I know of the crew being homogeneous.
Is there any indication elsewhere that people believe the OWS crew is homogeneous or monolithic?
Additionally, I doubt that anyone expects all that much coherence out of the OWS crew.
ymmv
 
Right now people are looking for an outlet for their frustrations for the poor economy in general. The tea party captured their attention for a while and now this is the new thing on the block.
However, most people aren't so ideological that they will attach themselves to any movement for life, so attention will wane after a while.
I don't think those bottom two numbers are likely to change all that much until the economic climate changes.

But I agree that the interest in the OWS stuff will lose momentum. But the issues and perceptions involved with "wall street and its lobbyists have too much influence in Washington" & "the gap between rich and poor in the united states has grown too large" are not likely to fall to the wayside until people are able to be distracted from their own personal economic problems.
 
I suspect you'll be disappointed in that. I haven't noticed any impression among anyone I know of the crew being homogeneous.
Is there any indication elsewhere that people believe the OWS crew is homogeneous or monolithic?
Additionally, I doubt that anyone expects all that much coherence out of the OWS crew.
ymmv

Maybe so. This is the stuff that is starting to show up with the Occupy crowds....

The PJ Tatler » More Anti-Semitism at Occupy Los Angeles
 
Maybe so. This is the stuff that is starting to show up with the Occupy crowds....
The PJ Tatler » More Anti-Semitism at Occupy Los Angeles
If you only watched Jay Leno, one might be tempted to think that everyone on the street in LA is super stupid. But, of course, they're not and most people have experiences outside of Jay Leno. So we realize that who he chooses to show on TV are a part of a specially selected subset rather than a representative sample. I suspect that most people understand that. But maybe I have too much faith in people.
 
looking at that link I notice two things
1. Its four signs that are shown over and over again
2. I wonder what the reaction would be if people started posting racist tea party signs.

In any movement like this, we are going to get a few crazies. We just spent months trying to show that a few crazies with signs does not make a whole movement with the tea party, did we not learn from this at all?
 
looking at that link I notice two things
1. Its four signs that are shown over and over again
2. I wonder what the reaction would be if people started posting racist tea party signs.

In any movement like this, we are going to get a few crazies. We just spent months trying to show that a few crazies with signs does not make a whole movement with the tea party, did we not learn from this at all?

If these protests do nothing else it demonstrates that the hysterical reaction to the Tea Party and the people who carried signs and attended the rallies are to be treated the same as many of you are treating the fringe people attending these rallies. Now people want to be reasonable and circumspect about the fringe element in the current protest while they were not in the Tea Party protests. What goes around comes around.
 
Last edited:
looking at that link I notice two things
1. Its four signs that are shown over and over again
2. I wonder what the reaction would be if people started posting racist tea party signs.

In any movement like this, we are going to get a few crazies. We just spent months trying to show that a few crazies with signs does not make a whole movement with the tea party, did we not learn from this at all?


Obviously not since you seem to start this post with the meme that Tea Party members are racist due to signage at an event that very well could have been lib infiltrators, yet when it comes to the blessed unwashed (literally) throngs defecating on private property in NY, well then they are just a few crazies...

That is about as objective as your OP citing a push poll from Time.

j-mac
 
The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:

q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say favor the rich, the government’s bank bailout, and the influence of money in our political system. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?

Why not this one:

q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say require them to repay their student loans, as they believe all their college eduction should be paid for by others, want everyone to be paid enough to live on regardless of their work ethics, want to see unions given back their ability to extort local governments, and generallly are opposed to capitalism. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?

Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.
 
If these protests do nothing else it demonstrates that the hysterical reaction to the Tea Party and the people who carried signs and attended the rallies are to be treated the same as many of you are treating the fringe people attending these rallies. Now people want to be reasonable and circumspect about the fringe element in the current protest while they were not in the Tea Party protests. What goes around comes around.

I think everyone should behave.

Obviously not since you seem to start this post with the meme that Tea Party members are racist due to signage at an event that very well could have been lib infiltrators, yet when it comes to the blessed unwashed (literally) throngs defecating on private property in NY, well then they are just a few crazies...

That is about as objective as your OP citing a push poll from Time.

j-mac

Ok, so you are saying that I started a meme in this thread that has been going on for well over a year?

Or did you miss the simple point that jumbalaya picked up easily, in that we should not play favorites and be hypocritical?

The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:



Why not this one:



Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.

Please point out what isn't neutral about the wording of those polls?
 
Last edited:
................. Please point out what isn't neutral about the wording of those polls?

I took the time to type out a contrasting description of the OWS group. Can't make it more clear.
 
I took the time to type out a contrasting description of the OWS group. Can't make it more clear.

My mistake, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were citing two different portions of the article.

Ok, so the problem is in the one you made up, you used words such as extort and "be paid regardless of work ethic", this is not neutral terminology.

While on the first quote what is listed are generally seen to be positions of the protestors.

So while the first quote is neutral, yours is not.

It would be equivalent to saying "the tea party is opposed to higher taxes" which is an accurate portrayal of one of their positions (at least I am not aware of any tea parties that want higher taxes (in total))vs "they hate the poor and thus want them to pay more taxes for that reason" which is a subjective view (not necessarily mine, but one I have seen expressed on the board). Also in this case, the tea party defines themselves while the other quote has an outside definition. In both cases, the subjective assignment of value on the question is an example of bad polling.

Generally polls seek to avoid spin in their effort to produce accurate results.
 
Last edited:
The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:



Why not this one:



Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.

Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!
 
Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!


Then more trash comes in... The Who said it best: "Meet the new boss... same as the old boss".
 
Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!

Sanitation workers for congress!!!
 
My mistake, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were citing two different portions of the article.

Ok, so the problem is in the one you made up, you used words such as extort and "be paid regardless of work ethic", this is not neutral terminology.

While on the first quote what is listed are generally seen to be positions of the protestors.

So while the first quote is neutral, yours is not.

It would be equivalent to saying "the tea party is opposed to higher taxes" which is an accurate portrayal of one of their positions (at least I am not aware of any tea parties that want higher taxes (in total))vs "they hate the poor and thus want them to pay more taxes for that reason" which is a subjective view (not necessarily mine, but one I have seen expressed on the board). Also in this case, the tea party defines themselves while the other quote has an outside definition. In both cases, the subjective assignment of value on the question is an example of bad polling.

Generally polls seek to avoid spin in their effort to produce accurate results.

No problem. Clearly (I thought) I was using some absurdity to demonstrate my point. When you look to the questions about the Tea Party, they contained no similar laudatory characterizations, for instance "an organization against wasteful government spending ......", which would generate very favorable responses. The poll included descriptions that were most favorable, and left out others less favorable, for the OWS folks.

As a voter, I am very content with the OWS folks. I see them as an anchor around the liberal neck. I am content too in that we have already had an election, November 2010, where all these issues were before the American people already. And the liberal view was overwhelmingly trounced. The issues have not changed since Nov 2010, despite the best efforts of Democrat leaders to foment such.

The problem that I have is the heirarchy of a Party, starting with Obama and Pelosi, fomenting this type of American against American rhetoric, to the point of physical "occupation", and eventually, confrontation. We have Biden saying that there will be more rapes and murders if JOBS is not passed. Come Nov 2012 we will have just about everything blamed on Republicans and JOBS not being passed !! But we are hearing more violent rhetoric in those streets now, and seeing more physical clashes. A pox on Obama, Biden, and Pelosi as far as I am concerned. They are scum.
 
No problem. Clearly (I thought) I was using some absurdity to demonstrate my point. When you look to the questions about the Tea Party, they contained no similar laudatory characterizations, for instance "an organization against wasteful government spending ......", which would generate very favorable responses. The poll included descriptions that were most favorable, and left out others less favorable, for the OWS folks.

The reason for this, I think, is that the poll contained some introductory information about the OWS folks, the main reason being, that if you look at the poll, there are still not common knowledge to a lot of folks while at this point, everyone has heard of the tea party.

As a voter, I am very content with the OWS folks. I see them as an anchor around the liberal neck. I am content too in that we have already had an election, November 2010, where all these issues were before the American people already. And the liberal view was overwhelmingly trounced. The issues have not changed since Nov 2010, despite the best efforts of Democrat leaders to foment such.

The problem that I have is the heirarchy of a Party, starting with Obama and Pelosi, fomenting this type of American against American rhetoric, to the point of physical "occupation", and eventually, confrontation. We have Biden saying that there will be more rapes and murders if JOBS is not passed. Come Nov 2012 we will have just about everything blamed on Republicans and JOBS not being passed !! But we are hearing more violent rhetoric in those streets now, and seeing more physical clashes. A pox on Obama, Biden, and Pelosi as far as I am concerned. They are scum.

This is possible, but as of right now, I see every indication telling me that the ~50% of the country in the middle doesn't see things on these terms, they tend to ask "what will work for my situation right now out of these options being presented to me" and they ask that same question over and over, in spite of past wins or losses by whichever ideology. They are not like people on this forum at all.

Also, never bank on non-presidential year election results. The dems trounced the republicans a few years back and the republicans just trounced the dems recently. This is because non-presidential year elections are typically base elections not general voter ones.
 
Last edited:
Then more trash comes in... The Who said it best: "Meet the new boss... same as the old boss".

Just as the Tea Party got hijacked by the GOP, OWS will eventually be hijacked by the Democrats.
 
Just as the Tea Party got hijacked by the GOP, OWS will eventually be hijacked by the Democrats.

I'm not so sure about that.

When Rep. John Lewis showed up last week to address the crowd at the Occupy Atlanta site, protesters praised the Georgia Democrat for his work in politics and civil rights but successfully argued that he shouldn't be allowed to bump the group's "agenda" in order to speak right away.
Lewis, who had other obligations, decided to leave, though he said he took no offense. Recalling his own days as head of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in the 1960s, he said civil rights groups sometimes reached consensus slowly and refused to be deferential to more established leaders.


For Wall Street Protests, What Constitutes Success? : NPR
 
The reason for this, I think, is that the poll contained some introductory information about the OWS folks, the main reason being, that if you look at the poll, there are still not common knowledge to a lot of folks while at this point, everyone has heard of the tea party.

This is possible, but as of right now, I see every indication telling me that the ~50% of the country in the middle doesn't see things on these terms, they tend to ask "what will work for my situation right now out of these options being presented to me" and they ask that same question over and over, in spite of past wins or losses by whichever ideology. They are not like people on this forum at all.

Also, never bank on non-presidential year election results. The dems trounced the republicans a few years back and the republicans just trounced the dems recently. This is because non-presidential year elections are typically base elections not general voter ones.

I can't share your conclusions above. Were the mid-terms just ho-hum, your basic 20-30 seat out-party gain, then conclusions would be ho-hum. Instead, we had a monumental rejection of Obama. Historic proportions. And what has changed since last November ? Has policy improved and things turned around ? A: NO

Folks are still rejecting Obama. He is lower in the polls now than he was last year. The "what will work", or better put "what I do not want" is the same now as it was last year.

So we look to what is happening with regard to Obama's reelection plugs. Is Obama doing a better job of "blaming" Republicans ? Is he fooling folks better now then before ? That is the plan, and it looks like a 5-spiral crash so far :)
 
I can't share your conclusions above. Were the mid-terms just ho-hum, your basic 20-30 seat out-party gain, then conclusions would be ho-hum. Instead, we had a monumental rejection of Obama. Historic proportions. And what has changed since last November ? Has policy improved and things turned around ? A: NO

Folks are still rejecting Obama. He is lower in the polls now than he was last year. The "what will work", or better put "what I do not want" is the same now as it was last year.

So we look to what is happening with regard to Obama's reelection plugs. Is Obama doing a better job of "blaming" Republicans ? Is he fooling folks better now then before ? That is the plan, and it looks like a 5-spiral crash so far :)

Which was due to a highly motivated base and more democratic seats being up for grabs.

Second, the primary thing on a typical voter's mind these days is the economy and jobs. In those two concerns, there is no overwhelming favor of one party over another. Voters are not going to vote on 2010 issues, they are going to vote on 2012 issues.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom