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Thread: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    looking at that link I notice two things
    1. Its four signs that are shown over and over again
    2. I wonder what the reaction would be if people started posting racist tea party signs.

    In any movement like this, we are going to get a few crazies. We just spent months trying to show that a few crazies with signs does not make a whole movement with the tea party, did we not learn from this at all?
    If these protests do nothing else it demonstrates that the hysterical reaction to the Tea Party and the people who carried signs and attended the rallies are to be treated the same as many of you are treating the fringe people attending these rallies. Now people want to be reasonable and circumspect about the fringe element in the current protest while they were not in the Tea Party protests. What goes around comes around.
    Last edited by jambalaya; 10-14-11 at 10:46 AM.

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    looking at that link I notice two things
    1. Its four signs that are shown over and over again
    2. I wonder what the reaction would be if people started posting racist tea party signs.

    In any movement like this, we are going to get a few crazies. We just spent months trying to show that a few crazies with signs does not make a whole movement with the tea party, did we not learn from this at all?

    Obviously not since you seem to start this post with the meme that Tea Party members are racist due to signage at an event that very well could have been lib infiltrators, yet when it comes to the blessed unwashed (literally) throngs defecating on private property in NY, well then they are just a few crazies...

    That is about as objective as your OP citing a push poll from Time.

    j-mac
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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:

    q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say favor the rich, the government’s bank bailout, and the influence of money in our political system. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?
    Why not this one:

    q11. In the past few days, a group of protestors has been gathering on wall street in new york city and some other cities to protest policies which they say require them to repay their student loans, as they believe all their college eduction should be paid for by others, want everyone to be paid enough to live on regardless of their work ethics, want to see unions given back their ability to extort local governments, and generallly are opposed to capitalism. Is your opinion of these protests very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, or don’t you know enough about the protests to have an opinion?
    Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    If these protests do nothing else it demonstrates that the hysterical reaction to the Tea Party and the people who carried signs and attended the rallies are to be treated the same as many of you are treating the fringe people attending these rallies. Now people want to be reasonable and circumspect about the fringe element in the current protest while they were not in the Tea Party protests. What goes around comes around.
    I think everyone should behave.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Obviously not since you seem to start this post with the meme that Tea Party members are racist due to signage at an event that very well could have been lib infiltrators, yet when it comes to the blessed unwashed (literally) throngs defecating on private property in NY, well then they are just a few crazies...

    That is about as objective as your OP citing a push poll from Time.

    j-mac
    Ok, so you are saying that I started a meme in this thread that has been going on for well over a year?

    Or did you miss the simple point that jumbalaya picked up easily, in that we should not play favorites and be hypocritical?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:



    Why not this one:



    Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.
    Please point out what isn't neutral about the wording of those polls?
    Last edited by tacomancer; 10-14-11 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    ................. Please point out what isn't neutral about the wording of those polls?
    I took the time to type out a contrasting description of the OWS group. Can't make it more clear.

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I took the time to type out a contrasting description of the OWS group. Can't make it more clear.
    My mistake, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were citing two different portions of the article.

    Ok, so the problem is in the one you made up, you used words such as extort and "be paid regardless of work ethic", this is not neutral terminology.

    While on the first quote what is listed are generally seen to be positions of the protestors.

    So while the first quote is neutral, yours is not.

    It would be equivalent to saying "the tea party is opposed to higher taxes" which is an accurate portrayal of one of their positions (at least I am not aware of any tea parties that want higher taxes (in total))vs "they hate the poor and thus want them to pay more taxes for that reason" which is a subjective view (not necessarily mine, but one I have seen expressed on the board). Also in this case, the tea party defines themselves while the other quote has an outside definition. In both cases, the subjective assignment of value on the question is an example of bad polling.

    Generally polls seek to avoid spin in their effort to produce accurate results.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 10-14-11 at 12:56 PM.

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The context here is as a pathetic liberal joke. The "poll" asked this question:



    Why not this one:



    Nov 2012. We are putting out the trash.
    Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

    Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

    Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!

    Then more trash comes in... The Who said it best: "Meet the new boss... same as the old boss".
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Just like the protesters did at Zucotti Park!

    Maybe we can ALL get together to take out the trash in 2012!
    Sanitation workers for congress!!!

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    Re: Topline Results of Oct. 9-10, 2011, TIME Poll (Occupy wall street polling well)

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My mistake, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were citing two different portions of the article.

    Ok, so the problem is in the one you made up, you used words such as extort and "be paid regardless of work ethic", this is not neutral terminology.

    While on the first quote what is listed are generally seen to be positions of the protestors.

    So while the first quote is neutral, yours is not.

    It would be equivalent to saying "the tea party is opposed to higher taxes" which is an accurate portrayal of one of their positions (at least I am not aware of any tea parties that want higher taxes (in total))vs "they hate the poor and thus want them to pay more taxes for that reason" which is a subjective view (not necessarily mine, but one I have seen expressed on the board). Also in this case, the tea party defines themselves while the other quote has an outside definition. In both cases, the subjective assignment of value on the question is an example of bad polling.

    Generally polls seek to avoid spin in their effort to produce accurate results.
    No problem. Clearly (I thought) I was using some absurdity to demonstrate my point. When you look to the questions about the Tea Party, they contained no similar laudatory characterizations, for instance "an organization against wasteful government spending ......", which would generate very favorable responses. The poll included descriptions that were most favorable, and left out others less favorable, for the OWS folks.

    As a voter, I am very content with the OWS folks. I see them as an anchor around the liberal neck. I am content too in that we have already had an election, November 2010, where all these issues were before the American people already. And the liberal view was overwhelmingly trounced. The issues have not changed since Nov 2010, despite the best efforts of Democrat leaders to foment such.

    The problem that I have is the heirarchy of a Party, starting with Obama and Pelosi, fomenting this type of American against American rhetoric, to the point of physical "occupation", and eventually, confrontation. We have Biden saying that there will be more rapes and murders if JOBS is not passed. Come Nov 2012 we will have just about everything blamed on Republicans and JOBS not being passed !! But we are hearing more violent rhetoric in those streets now, and seeing more physical clashes. A pox on Obama, Biden, and Pelosi as far as I am concerned. They are scum.

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