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Thread: Shortages Lead Doctors To Ration Critical Drugs

  1. #21
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    Re: Shortages Lead Doctors To Ration Critical Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    health care should not be tied to employment.
    i don't disagree with this. it's a holdover from after WWII when compensation was arbitrarily held down. health care via the employer was added as an available incentive not restricted by the compensation limits

    an employer could provide funds for the purchase of health insurance,
    for the wage earner, isn't this the source of funds for almost all of the employee's purchases? why treat health insurance any differently that any other commodity?

    and the employee would buy the policy on an exchange.
    isn't this part of the Obama plan?

    also on this exchange will be a competitively priced option to buy into medicare early, which is needed to place downward pressure on skyrocketing private plans.
    why would such effect be the expected outcome?

    the cost problem needs to be addressed. we need more doctors, and we need to make it simpler and more economical for students to go to medical school.
    could not agree more. would suggest that we have medical academies like military academies where the students would leave with credentials and a multi-year obligation to serve the public
    by expanding the supply of medical practitioners, we would diminish the demand on each
    there are many today who are qualified to go to medical school but are without the means to do so. such a waste of talent. talent our nation desperately needs

    finally, we need to remove some excuses that the pharmaceutical companies have for charging outlandish amounts of money for medications. first, it shouldn't cost a billion dollars to bring a drug to market.
    why? a cure for cancer or a cure for aids for $1 billion. that would be a bargain in my opinion

    i'm not entirely convinced aspirin would reach the market if it were developed today. the consumer is going to have to accept that there is some degree of risk with any medication.
    we already do. listen to the disclaimers being spoken on the tv ads for new drugs. it amazes me that people even take them knowing the potential dire consequences

    this doesn't mean releasing prescription pharmaceuticals into the market untested, but there is certainly some middle ground that we could explore.
    seems to me like you are seeking the drugs be made available faster at the expense of some problems not being found
    i was a member of the thalidomide generation. my Mom actually took it for morning sickness while carrying me. fortunately, i was not one of the (directly) afflicted but here is a cite to see images of that tragic outcome. one which resulted because we allowed that drug to proceed to market too fast (warning, these images may be shocking):
    thalidomide babies - Google Search


    if that's not enough to bring costs down, then there are other a few other nuclear options we could try. we could develop some pharmaceuticals publicly, funding direct research and development as we currently fund basic research through the grant system.
    we already do this. it's one good reason why the research triangle is one of the leading biotech centers in the world. we coordinated federal and state funds to advance such research

    we wouldn't have to do much of that to give pharmaceutical companies additional competition. the manufacture of publicly developed medicines could be sold to private industry, or that could be public, as well. perhaps we should consider re-examining patents as well.
    if they must relinquish the unique ability to manufacture and profit from what they have developed then what incentive will the pharm company have to engage in private research

    the novel nature of any medicine would play a role, as would the proposed pricing structure.
    is it other than supply and demand? if so, what alternate pricing mechanism is being employed

    and if none of the above works, we move to single payer public health insurance and force the prices down.
    how does single payer coverage cause cost/price to come down?

    our current system is rising in cost at an unsustainable rate. something is going to have to be done.
    on this we agree. trouble is, there seem to be few realistic ways to address this growing problem
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #22
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    Re: Shortages Lead Doctors To Ration Critical Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    for the wage earner, isn't this the source of funds for almost all of the employee's purchases? why treat health insurance any differently that any other commodity?
    i would make it a separate compensation package to prevent employers form eliminating it entirely or absorbing it into an already depressed wage.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    isn't this part of the Obama plan?
    there are some good parts to the plan, but under his plan, many will still be tied to employer-specific coverage.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    why would such effect be the expected outcome?
    because medicare doesn't have to produce large profits and attract shareholders. having it in competition will force health insurance providers to bring down premiums as much as possible. the pricing of the medicare buy in can be adjusted to be competitive with other plans, or it can be made available to those who fall below a certain income threshold.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    why? a cure for cancer or a cure for aids for $1 billion. that would be a bargain in my opinion
    and it would bankrupt nearly everyone who underwent the treatment, making it only available to the super-rich.

    if a company wants to charge an outlandish price for a groundbreaking drug, that should affect the length of their patent.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    seems to me like you are seeking the drugs be made available faster at the expense of some problems not being found
    i was a member of the thalidomide generation. my Mom actually took it for morning sickness while carrying me. fortunately, i was not one of the (directly) afflicted but here is a cite to see images of that tragic outcome. one which resulted because we allowed that drug to proceed to market too fast
    my mother took a pill decades ago during pregnancy. in the 1980s, it was found to cause respiratory defects. i was born with emphysema in one of my lungs, and had to have an upper lobe removed at two weeks of age. the defect was likely due to the medication. the company was sued, but my parents thought participating would be an exercise in futility.

    however, this momentary lapse into anecdotal evidence is irrelevant to the point, other than to prove that i have skin in the game, so to speak. something has to be done to reduce the cost of bringing a drug to market if we are to bring the cost of the medication down. i don't see a way of doing that without having the consumer accept a degree of risk, much as they are doing now.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    if they must relinquish the unique ability to manufacture and profit from what they have developed then what incentive will the pharm company have to engage in private research
    i was referring to the manufacture of drugs developed publicly. a publicly developed drug could be manufactured publicly or privately.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    is it other than supply and demand? if so, what alternate pricing mechanism is being employed
    demand for these products is inelastic. while the company should profit from the discovery, it should not be permitted to hold the drug hostage and demand a ransom that would cause widespread increases in the cost of access to healthcare. the system as it is set up is imploding from the bottom up.

    if your argument is that no private company will develop life saving drugs if they are not allowed to charge ridiculously high prices for them, i disagree. and if you're right, we can address the need by developing pharmaceuticals publicly.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    how does single payer coverage cause cost/price to come down?
    because single payer would mean one large group that would only pay a certain amount for medical services. this would put a downward force on overall prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    on this we agree. trouble is, there seem to be few realistic ways to address this growing problem
    agree. the chance of my own solution being seriously entertained is minimal at this point; it may become more likely after a systemic collapse, however. but since we are speaking of solutions, it can't hurt to consider solutions whose time has not yet come.

  3. #23
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    Re: Shortages Lead Doctors To Ration Critical Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I have 3 Stints in my heart requiring that I take blood thinner and Plavix every day for the rest of my life and there is no Generic I can buy, and the pills cost $200 at Walmart so I don't want to hear how the profit margins are two small.

    If they a medication that doesn't leave then with a big profit, they make it up with outrages profits on another one.

    I figure Plavix real cost is most likely about $0.25 per pill if that. I sure hope the Congress passes some kind Law to stop this BS.
    "Small government. Except when companies are ****ing me over!"
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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