Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 122

Thread: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

  1. #31
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    He's playing the system. I know, I've done it myself. Here's how it works: You pay yourself a pittance in salary, thus exposing a very small amount of money to ordinary income tax, social security and medicare. He only pays himself a salary of $100,000 a year. Warren Buffett's Effective Federal Income Tax Rate Was Just 11% - Forbes
    This is not exactly accurate. If a company pays its CEO with stock instead of salary, the value of the stock is still taxed at the normal income rate. If that stock later appreciates in value, then that increase is taxed at the capital gains rate. In other words, there is no difference between a CEO receiving $1,000,000 in stock as compensation, versus a CEO receiving a check for $1,000,000 and buying the stock on his own.

    Regarding social security tax, there would be no reason for him to keep a low salary if your theory was true. You stop paying social security taxes beyond your first $106,800 of income anyway, so it doesn't really matter if he earns more than that.

    Regarding medicare tax, it's roughly the same story as the federal income tax. Your taxable income for medicare is just your AGI from your income tax, minus certain deductions and exemptions. You still have to pay medicare tax on stock compensation that you receive in exchange for your labor.

    He takes his income from Berkshire Hathaway in the form of dividends rather than salary, thus avoiding payroll taxes on the bulk of his earnings.
    Dividends are paid out to shareholders; it is impossible "take income in the form of dividends." He receives stock (which is taxed at the normal income rate), and then that stock produces dividends depending on the company's performance (which is taxed as income just like for every other shareholder).

    The average CEO of a Fortune 500 company in the U.S. is $1.09 million. Buffett's? $100,000. Berkshire Hathaway ranks #19 in The Global 500 (largest companies in the world) and its CEO earns $100,000. Talk about playing the system!
    This is a very odd criticism, because it is generally considered a GOOD thing when CEOs take their compensation in the form of stock rather than salary (because it shows they are more invested in the success of the company, and because it shows that they are compensated based on their actual performance). Furthermore, the information Buffett released explicitly contradicts your claims. His taxable income was nearly $63 million, so clearly it includes more than just his $100,000 salary.

    Suggested New Buffett Rule:

    Actually, the IRS should be on this guy in a New York Minute. The IRS has rules against paying yourself a pittance like this to avoid payroll taxes. I think the code reads something like "usual and customary." I wouldn't be surprised that they begin an investigation....just because they are embarrassed. That $15,000 number on $100,000? Social Security alone would be $6,200. So he's paying [U]income tax[U] of $8,800 on $100,000. I'd say a full audit of his personal return is coming down the road...
    At first glance there doesn't appear to be anything unusual in the information he released. Still, I would agree that it was probably not a good idea for him to release it simply because any wealthy person is going to have some stuff that his critics will attack him for. Which is exactly why the Republicans wanted him to release his tax information in the first place; not because they were actually interested in examining the problem with the tax code, but because they wanted to nickel-and-dime his deductions in order to discredit him.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-20-11 at 12:43 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #32
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,351

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is not exactly accurate. If a company pays its CEO with stock instead of salary, the value of the stock is still taxed at the normal income rate. If that stock later appreciates in value, then that increase is taxed at the capital gains rate. In other words, there is no difference between a CEO receiving $1,000,000 in stock as compensation, versus a CEO receiving a check for $1,000,000 and buying the stock on his own.

    Regarding social security tax, there would be no reason for him to keep a low salary if your theory was true. You stop paying social security taxes beyond your first $106,800 of income anyway, so it doesn't really matter if he earns more than that.

    Regarding medicare tax, it's roughly the same story as the federal income tax. Your taxable income for medicare is just your AGI from your income tax, minus certain deductions and exemptions. You still have to pay medicare tax on stock compensation that you receive in exchange for your labor.



    Dividends are paid out to shareholders; it is impossible "take income in the form of dividends." He receives stock (which is taxed at the normal income rate), and then that stock produces dividends depending on the company's performance (which is taxed as income just like for every other shareholder).



    This is a very odd criticism, because it is generally considered a GOOD thing when CEOs take their compensation in the form of stock rather than salary (because it shows they are more invested in the success of the company). Furthermore, the information Buffett released explicitly contradicts your claims. His taxable income was nearly $7 million, so clearly it includes more than just his $100,000 salary.



    At first glance there doesn't appear to be anything unusual in the information he released. Still, I would agree that it was probably not a good idea for him to release it simply because any wealthy person is going to have some stuff that his critics will attack him for. Which is exactly why the Republicans wanted him to release his tax information in the first place; not because they were actually interested in examining the problem with the tax code, but because they wanted to nickel-and-dime his deductions in order to use it to discredit him.
    Don't any of you no that Berkshire PAYS NO DIVIDENDS! Also that his return showed that he had about $42 million in taxable income and then paid $7 million in Taxes.

    How can there be a debate on a topic when people know so little about the topic being discussed.

    Buffet has a POV that is worthy of discussion, but it is not worth discussing when people have so little understanding of the basic facts presented.

  3. #33
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Don't any of you no that Berkshire PAYS NO DIVIDENDS!
    OK, but not really relevant to my point: He still pays income taxes on his compensation for his labor, regardless of whether that compensation is in the form of a salary or stock.

    Also that his return showed that he had about $42 million in taxable income and then paid $7 million in Taxes.
    Mm-hmm...

    How can there be a debate on a topic when people know so little about the topic being discussed.

    Buffet has a POV that is worthy of discussion, but it is not worth discussing when people have so little understanding of the basic facts presented.
    It's really not worth discussing with people who are so rude about a trivial point...especially when they don't bother to explain how it's even relevant.
    Whether or not Berkshire pays dividends has no bearing on Buffett's compensation as an employee. Dividends are paid to shareholders, salaries or stock are paid to employees.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-20-11 at 12:53 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #34
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,351

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    OK, but not really relevant to my point: He still pays income taxes on his compensation for his labor, regardless of whether that compensation is in the form of a salary or stock.



    Mm-hmm...



    It's really not worth discussing with people who are so rude about a trivial point...especially when they don't bother to explain how it's even relevant.
    Whether or not Berkshire pays dividends has no bearing on Buffett's compensation as an employee. Dividends are paid to shareholders, salaries or stock are paid to employees.
    OK we agree.

  5. #35
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Tell me how he's being patriotic.
    By wanting his country's economy and his fellow citizens to prosper. You see, he is smart enough to know that a consumer based economy cannot prosper when too much of the country's wealth is concentrated at the top.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #36
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    By wanting his country's economy and his fellow citizens to prosper. You see, he is smart enough to know that a consumer based economy cannot prosper when too much of the country's wealth is concentrated at the top.
    Yet he's hypocritical enough to not pay his "fair share", and spend a lot of money to avoid it.

    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #37
    Educator Reg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    10-24-11 @ 01:23 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    987

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    If Buffet wanted that, he should pay his back taxes first.

  8. #38
    ThunderCougarFalconBird
    roughdraft274's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,042

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    If Buffet wanted that, he should pay his back taxes first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yet he's hypocritical enough to not pay his "fair share", and spend a lot of money to avoid it.
    I know you two are too partisan to even understand this but I'll give it a shot anyways. There is a HUGE distinction between Buffett's personal income tax debt and that of Berkshire Hathaway. One is the tax obligation of a private citizen and the other is that of a corporation owned by shareholders. Two completely different and separate entities under the law.

    Berkshire Hathaway's fiduciary responsibility to it's SHAREHOLDERS is to MAXIMIZE returns under current tax law. That doesn't mean that current tax law is fair or that Warren Buffett is a hypocrite for calling to make tax law more equitable. It only means that he's fullfilling his moral and business obligation to his shareholders. What it demonstrates is a decades-long pattern of shrewd business dealings and fighting for his shareholders WITHIN the limits of the law. That's why Berkshire Hathaway's share price is $104,000.00 per share.

    Bottom line is that Warren Buffett's personal income tax obligation is a completely different animal from Berkshire Hathaway's and minimizing costs in the interest of shareholders is just plain old good business practice.

    Warren Buffett isn't a hypocrite simply because he thinks the rich should pay there fair share. He wants his own tax rate to go up. He'd be a hypocrite if he wanted everyone making millions, except for him, to pay more in taxes. His company that he is CEO of has a responsibility to it's share holder's to make money and unless they are doing something illegal he has every right to ask for tax adjustments if they think they are being over taxed in one area. Even if he thinks tax rates should go up that he can go and voluntarily give away a bunch of money from Berkshire Hathaway to the government, and if he did he probably wouldn't be CEO for very long.

    What his publicly traded company pays in taxes and what he himself pays in taxes are two different issues. You two and any other ill-informed conservative would do well to learn the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #39
    Educator Reg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    10-24-11 @ 01:23 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    987

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Buffet could direct Berkshire to pay its taxes if he wanted it so.

  10. #40
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Buffet could direct Berkshire to pay its taxes if he wanted it so.
    Doesn't Berkshire owe the IRS a billion dollars and some change?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •