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Thread: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

  1. #111
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, when you have a multi Billionaire stepping out there and advocating that other wealthy people should pay more in taxes to the government while he himself will leave his money to charity.

    It is hypocritical to say the least.

    j-mac
    He's not advocating that all millionaires give all of their wealth to the government. He's advocating taxing their income (capital gains) at at least the same level that normal people pay taxes and raising the top level to what it was under the 90's (maybe a three or four percent increase).

    You can be in favor of raising taxes ever so slightly on millionaires, give alot of your money to charity and not be a hypocrite. It's silly of you to even think that's even close to hypocritical. He's not asking for he government to take all funds that are given to charities. What world do you live in?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  2. #112
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    He's not advocating that all millionaires give all of their wealth to the government. He's advocating taxing their income (capital gains) at at least the same level that normal people pay taxes and raising the top level to what it was under the 90's (maybe a three or four percent increase).

    You can be in favor of raising taxes ever so slightly on millionaires, give alot of your money to charity and not be a hypocrite. It's silly of you to even think that's even close to hypocritical. He's not asking for he government to take all funds that are given to charities. What world do you live in?

    I live in the real world thanks for asking. However, you seem to have it confused. I didn't say that he was advocating giving ALL their wealth to the government did I? No, so you start out with a straw argument. Also, you and Warren fail to disclose that Capital Gains have already been taxed once before the gain was made, at the income rates, so that makes it a double tax to begin with.

    Second, you could tax Capital gains at 100% and it wouldn't be enough to solve the problem we face today, that is why I am against it. Remember the old saying, "They came for my neighbor and I said nothing, now they come for me."

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #113
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Second, you could tax Capital gains at 100% and it wouldn't be enough to solve the problem we face today, that is why I am against it.
    Oh, ok, good to know. Getting rid of the department of education wouldn't be enough to solve the deficit. Making sure poor people pay income taxes wouldn't solve it. Ending Obamacare wouldn't solve it. Are you against all of those things too?

    Capital gains have already been taxed? That's like saying if I take my income and use it to open a business then my profits on that business should never be taxed because the initial money going in to it was already taxed. That's a stupid argument. Noone's arguing to tax the money that gets invested, but if you make millions on those investments then the profits should be taxed just as any other income. It only makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  4. #114
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Oh, ok, good to know. Getting rid of the department of education wouldn't be enough to solve the deficit. Making sure poor people pay income taxes wouldn't solve it. Ending Obamacare wouldn't solve it. Are you against all of those things too?

    Capital gains have already been taxed? That's like saying if I take my income and use it to open a business then my profits on that business should never be taxed because the initial money going in to it was already taxed. That's a stupid argument. Noone's arguing to tax the money that gets invested, but if you make millions on those investments then the profits should be taxed just as any other income. It only makes sense.
    Only if you approach the argument from the side that government lets you keep a portion of your money, rather than the position that the money is yours.

    j-mac

    PS. And yes, the federal government should get the hell out of education. They have made it worse.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Only if you approach the argument from the side that government lets you keep a portion of your money, rather than the position that the money is yours.

    j-mac

    PS. And yes, the federal government should get the hell out of education. They have made it worse.
    You couldn't be further from reality. Why should profits from capital gains be any different then money you make in a business that you open up using income that's been taxed? It's both profit that came from a result of you spending money that's already been taxed in order to get more money. It's the same thing.

    And with the education thing, alright you think that's best. If I turned this around and used your argument that ending the department of education wouldn't be enough us from a deficit to a surplus and solve our problem, therefor it won't work, would you accept that as a logical argument against it? Of course not, that's why I reject your argument against taxing capital gains. It's a stupid argument. You either have to agree that it's a silly argument or you have to agree with your argument that you aren't in favor of getting rid of the department of education because that's just not enough to fix our problems. Which is it?
    Last edited by roughdraft274; 10-24-11 at 01:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  6. #116
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You couldn't be further from reality. Why should profits from capital gains be any different then money you make in a business that you open up using income that's been taxed? It's both profit that came from a result of you spending money that's already been taxed in order to get more money. It's the same thing.

    And with the education thing, alright you think that's best. If I turned this around and used your argument that ending the department of education wouldn't be enough us from a deficit to a surplus and solve our problem, therefor it won't work, would you accept that as a logical argument against it? Of course not, that's why I reject your argument against taxing capital gains. It's a stupid argument. You either have to agree that it's a silly argument or you have to agree with your argument that you aren't in favor of getting rid of the department of education because that's just not enough to fix our problems. Which is it?
    Just a question RD, let's see if you can give an answer that we can discuss.

    Of the money I earn, is it mine, or the governments? and How much of it should I be allowed to keep?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just a question RD, let's see if you can give an answer that we can discuss.

    Of the money I earn, is it mine, or the governments? and How much of it should I be allowed to keep?

    j-mac

    Here's a BETTER question...is it legal to attempt to commit suicide?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  8. #118
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just a question RD, let's see if you can give an answer that we can discuss.

    Of the money I earn, is it mine, or the governments? and How much of it should I be allowed to keep?

    j-mac
    Oh, ok, I get the problem, I was talking way above your grade level. I'll answer in short sentences for you.

    The money you earn is your money. You also live in a land of laws with a government. In return for the roads you drive on, the military that protects you, the cops you can call, the fire department that protects you, the department of education that helps keep schools running for the children of the country, and other various government agencies that make it to where we don't live in shacks and crap in buckets while having to boil water before drinking it, you pay taxes to keep those services running. To me, it's the exact same thing as saying that the money I earn is mine, how ever at the end of the month I need to cut a check to my mortgage company if I want to have a place to live. At that point, since I legally am obligated to pay them, it becomes their money. How much of it can you keep? I don't know. It's way too complicated of an answer in all honesty. I think if you make at close to the poverty level you should be able to keep alittle bit more percentage wise then if your bringing in millions, though I am against any tax that I think is so high that it will constrain businesses or people from being able to stay open and pay for the basics. Thankfully, right now, the country has uniformly moderate to low tax rates as compared to the rest of the industrialized world and as compared to our historical tax rates.

    Now back to the bigger picture. Regardless of whether you think that the money you earn is yours or the governments or whatever, that makes no logical argument that capital gains taxes should be drastically lower than any other income. It's income either way. I don't understand why you think that capital gains, money that has been made from investing income on investments, and money that has been made from investing money into a new business venture, should be treated any differently. Either way it's money that has been risked in an attempt to bring in more money.

    Now please answer that question and leave the whole "Is it my money or the governments money?" bull**** at the door. It has nothing at all to do with why you would treat these two incomes differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #119
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Oh, ok, I get the problem, I was talking way above your grade level. I'll answer in short sentences for you.
    I stopped reading at this point.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #120
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    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Oh, ok, I get the problem, I was talking way above your grade level. I'll answer in short sentences for you.

    The money you earn is your money. You also live in a land of laws with a government. In return for the roads you drive on, the military that protects you, the cops you can call, the fire department that protects you, the department of education that helps keep schools running for the children of the country, and other various government agencies that make it to where we don't live in shacks and crap in buckets while having to boil water before drinking it, you pay taxes to keep those services running. To me, it's the exact same thing as saying that the money I earn is mine, how ever at the end of the month I need to cut a check to my mortgage company if I want to have a place to live. At that point, since I legally am obligated to pay them, it becomes their money. How much of it can you keep? I don't know. It's way too complicated of an answer in all honesty. I think if you make at close to the poverty level you should be able to keep alittle bit more percentage wise then if your bringing in millions, though I am against any tax that I think is so high that it will constrain businesses or people from being able to stay open and pay for the basics. Thankfully, right now, the country has uniformly moderate to low tax rates as compared to the rest of the industrialized world and as compared to our historical tax rates.

    Now back to the bigger picture. Regardless of whether you think that the money you earn is yours or the governments or whatever, that makes no logical argument that capital gains taxes should be drastically lower than any other income. It's income either way. I don't understand why you think that capital gains, money that has been made from investing income on investments, and money that has been made from investing money into a new business venture, should be treated any differently. Either way it's money that has been risked in an attempt to bring in more money.

    Now please answer that question and leave the whole "Is it my money or the governments money?" bull**** at the door. It has nothing at all to do with why you would treat these two incomes differently.
    If you don't mind I will take a shot at your question.

    There are all sorts of preferences in the tax code. The logic behind capital gains is that lowers the cost of capital in an economy which relies heavily om investment as our workers are materially higher paid than their competitors in much of the world. Now you may not like that preference as someone else might not like the preference for having a lot of kids ( personal exemptions).

    All of this avoids the obvious issue for both sides of the tax argument. That is we know the tax system is broken but neither side seems willing to review the overall broken system instead uses politics to point to one nutty think or the other.

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