Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 122

Thread: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

  1. #101
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If that is your claim, provide your proof, because you have not shown that Buffett is a hypocrite.
    I already have and so have you... he says one thing, and has CPA and lawyers employed to use the loopholes to garner him a lower tax responsibility than his secretary. See that's what hypocrite means --- say one thing, do another.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Also, please explain why Buffett petitioned to have his taxes increased, if he wished to avoid paying taxes?
    Because he knows petitioning doesn't mean squat.

    Is that it?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #102
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    He doesn't need to. It's common knowledge that capital gains are taxed at much lower rates than personal income tax. He also makes most of his money through capital gains, hence the lower tax rate. He's not gaming the system, the system was tailor made for him.
    Therefore being paid via capital gains is already a tax dodge methodology. That's a good point... however, there is no way in hell that Buffett doesn't have multiple CPA's and Lawyers watching the 2nd richest man in the worlds money.

    What's not mentioned is how Mr. Buffett and his CPA's and Lawyers sheltered his money from the existing tax code:

    Quote Originally Posted by WSJ
    For billionaires like Mr. Buffett, the single most important deduction in the tax code is for charitable giving. Middle-class earners can't give nearly as much money away to reduce their overall tax burden. Yet we don't hear Mr. Buffett calling for the elimination of that deduction in the name of fairness. Mr. Buffett has also already sheltered the bulk of his fortune from federal taxes by putting them into a foundation that will give the money away. That's an act of generosity, but if the government's purposes are so vital, why doesn't he simply give the money to the IRS?

    Rebecca Quick of CNBC put that question to Mr. Buffett in 2007. His answer: "Well, that's a choice and it's an option . . . If I had to give it to a single individual, or make some young Buffett a multibillionaire, or give it to the government, I'd absolutely give it to the government. I think that on balance the Gates Foundation, my daughter's foundation, my two sons' foundations will do a better job with lower administrative costs and better selection of beneficiaries than the government."
    Foundations also have CPA's and Lawyers assigned to them.

    Another note is that Buffett and Berkshire has an on going law suit against the IRS for past taxes due. The IRS claims that Berkshire has been short changing the IRS through 2000-2010. Some of the claims have been settled and others such as 2005-2008 are still being negotiated. This is where the claim of $1 billion in back taxes from Berkshire comes from.


    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    No, you don't pay less based on how many lawyers you hire. He pays less cause most of his money comes from capital gains and not personal income from his job. If you went out and made the same amount of money as him through personal gains and investing you'd pay very close to the same tax rate. He's not gaming he system. If you think that him making money through capital gains is gaming the system then I would think you agree with me that we should tax capital gains income as personal income...
    He games and has gamed the system. He's used the tax protection loopholes effectively such that he pays an incredibly low rate for someone with as much money as he has. I don't blame him for doing that, but I do blame him for being a hypocrite and using all those tax loopholes while saying "Raise my taxes". It's a joke... his money is protected using every method, loophole and function the tax code can provide. You and I both know that if Billionaires get taxed at 90% tomorrow and it passes, Buffett's income, investments, etc... are bullet proof unless of course, the entire tax code is scrapped and protections lifted. Then he with all the other billionaires would have to fork over whatever the government identified. If that happened, my opinion is, he would sue the government and anyone else to protect his money. He would NOT give it gladly to the government.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #103
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Therefore being paid via capital gains is already a tax dodge methodology.
    Not really. You can't get "paid via capital gains" in terms of compensation for your labor...capital gains is what happens when you sell a stock for more than what you paid for it. Of course Buffett probably earns a lot more from his investments than he does from his compensation at Berkshire, but that's not exactly a "tax dodge," that's just the nature of the career path that he's chosen.

    That's a good point... however, there is no way in hell that Buffett doesn't have multiple CPA's and Lawyers watching the 2nd richest man in the worlds money.
    I would assume you are correct, but again, there's nothing wrong with that. No one is under any moral obligation to pay more taxes than they are legally required to pay. That doesn't mean you have to support the existing tax code.

    EDIT: Actually, maybe he doesn't even have people watching his money. According to Buffett, "I have a lower tax rate, counting payroll taxes, than anybody in my office and I don't have a tax shelter. I just go take the form and fill out the numbers, and I think that's very wrong." Now maybe his view of what constitutes a "tax shelter" is different than yours or mine, but it at least sounds as if he doesn't even make a great effort to minimize his taxes. Not that there would be anything wrong with doing so.

    Foundations also have CPA's and Lawyers assigned to them.
    The charitable contribution deduction is one of the few deductions I actually support. I agree with Buffett that generally charities are more efficient at wisely spending the money than the government is, which is exactly why we need that deduction. Unfortunately charities don't usually receive sufficient funding which is why we need government programs as well.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-21-11 at 02:35 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #104
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Not really. You can't get "paid via capital gains" in terms of compensation for your labor...capital gains is what happens when you sell a stock for more than what you paid for it. Of course Buffett probably earns a lot more from his investments than he does from his compensation at Berkshire, but that's not exactly a "tax dodge," that's just the nature of the career path that he's chosen.
    My understanding is his pay comes from investments - I'm not aware of a paycheck he gets from Berkshire that is not part of an investment at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I would assume you are correct, but again, there's nothing wrong with that. No one is under any moral obligation to pay more taxes than they are legally required to pay. That doesn't mean you have to support the existing tax code.

    EDIT: Actually, maybe he doesn't even have people watching his money. According to Buffett, "I have a lower tax rate, counting payroll taxes, than anybody in my office and I don't have a tax shelter," Buffett said. "I just go take the form and fill out the numbers, and I think that's very wrong." Now maybe his view of what constitutes a "tax shelter" is different than yours or mine, but it at least sounds as if he doesn't even make a great effort to minimize his taxes. Not that there would be anything wrong with doing so.
    First, his investments are numerous. He's got CPA's and lawyers. Second, I agree he's under no moral obligation... yet that's why he's a hypocrite. He doesn't have to, yet he says "Raise my taxes" knowing full well any tax hike using any portion of the existing tax code will not affect him, his investments, his tax shelters, etc.etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The charitable contribution deduction is one of the few deductions I actually support. I agree with Buffett that generally charities are more efficient at wisely spending the money than the government is, which is exactly why we need that deduction. Unfortunately charities don't usually receive sufficient funding which is why we need government programs as well.
    And for billionaires, charitable contributions is a very powerful tool to hedge taxes, as the WSJ snippet pointed out.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #105
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    My understanding is his pay comes from investments - I'm not aware of a paycheck he gets from Berkshire that is not part of an investment at this point.
    I believe he mostly gets compensated in stock rather than salary. But that is still considered income, not capital gains. It becomes capital gains if the stock appreciates in value after he acquired it.

    First, his investments are numerous. He's got CPA's and lawyers. Second, I agree he's under no moral obligation... yet that's why he's a hypocrite.
    No he's not. Have you never benefited from a government action/program you don't personally agree with as a matter of policy?

    He doesn't have to, yet he says "Raise my taxes" knowing full well any tax hike using any portion of the existing tax code will not affect him, his investments, his tax shelters, etc.etc.
    I think he's calling for those rates to be raised and/or for those deductions to be eliminated. Why wouldn't that affect him?

    And for billionaires, charitable contributions is a very powerful tool to hedge taxes, as the WSJ snippet pointed out.
    Meh. If rich people are contributing lots of their money toward the betterment of society, I don't see what's so wrong with them giving it to charity instead of the government. On a per-dollar basis, that's probably a more efficient way of doing good anyway. That's why whenever I've called for the elimination of all tax deductions, I've always made a specific exception for charitable donations.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-21-11 at 02:46 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #106
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I believe he mostly gets compensated in stock rather than salary. But that is still considered income, not capital gains. It becomes capital gains if the stock appreciates in value after he acquired it.
    Yes... and isn't Buffett touted as the best stock picker in the world? So my comment still stands...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No he's not. Have you never benefited from a government action/program you don't personally agree with as a matter of policy?
    I have yet to benefit by any government action or program that I can think of. He's still a hypocrite for the reasons I've already outlined. Nothing you've provided changes that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think he's calling for those rates to be raised and/or for those deductions to be eliminated. Why wouldn't that affect him?
    His money is in trusts, he gets paid out of capital gains, he pulls little to no salary yet makes 6 million (as of last year) a year paying 17.5%. As I already stated, unless the entire tax system is scrapped, his protections of his money will be untouched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Meh. If rich people are contributing lots of their money toward the betterment of society, I don't see what's so wrong with them giving it to charity instead of the government. On a per-dollar basis, that's probably a more efficient way of doing good anyway. That's why whenever I've called for the elimination of all tax deductions, I've always made a specific exception for charitable donations.
    On it's face, nobiless oblige is a very good idea.... the ulterior motive as a tax benefit just makes it that much more attractive. The question should be: How much charity would the billionaires give if the tax benefit for doing so was 0%?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #107
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Why Management Matters (and Warren Buffett is so Awesome)

    "Being that Warren Buffett is in the business of investing in stocks and buying businesses, he has even further to go than your average CEO. There is a deep mistrust out there for all things “Financial,” especially stock pickers.

    But Warren Buffett is above reproach. Why? He’s proven, over the years, that he will stick to his guns. He won’t take any shortcuts to make a little bit of extra money. How do we know?

    We have 60+ years to look back on. His track record is spotless."

    Why Management Matters (and Warren Buffett is so Awesome) | The Writers Coin
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #108
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,972
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    So then, rather than pay taxes on my money, I can just invest it to the point that I no longer "make enough" to owe taxes?


    Wow, that sounds awesome, why can't I do that? Oh....wait...
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #109
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,619

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Tell me how he's being patriotic.

    He thinks that Buffett's ploy to ingratiate himself to the envious while promoting a bigger government that in turn allows Buffett more power, is good for America



  10. #110
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: Warren Buffett releases tax figures to GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Meh. If rich people are contributing lots of their money toward the betterment of society, I don't see what's so wrong with them giving it to charity instead of the government. On a per-dollar basis, that's probably a more efficient way of doing good anyway. That's why whenever I've called for the elimination of all tax deductions, I've always made a specific exception for charitable donations.
    I agree with the point that charities are more efficient, and better at achieving their goals, than government is. And that the deductions for charitable giving is one that should remain. However, when you have a multi Billionaire stepping out there and advocating that other wealthy people should pay more in taxes to the government while he himself will leave his money to charity.

    It is hypocritical to say the least.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •