Republicans block Obama jobs bill

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Why am I finding myself linking you to my previous post you just responded too?

Because you obviously didn’t read or understand YOUR previous post. You stated that ‘this explicitly says why we should’. The article you posted stated ‘there is also a compelling national interest’. What was included in the article that was ‘explicit’? Because of an opinion of compelling interest? Because at some point in our past our illustrious government decided to TAKE OVER a portion of the education system in this country doesn’t mean that we AGREE NOW. Further it may have SEEMED like a good idea then but the statistics do not support the success of said program over 45 years. Does it seem intelligent to continue the experiment?

There was ‘compelling national interest’ for prohibition but we QUICKLY found out how that was wrong. Again, another example of our illustrious government at work. Unfortunately, ADULTS were the ones that were prohibited and were of age to make the case for repeal. Children unfortunately are unable to make changes to the current system and rely on adults to make the system better. So far it seems to have not worked out for them too well.

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Why am I finding myself linking you to my previous post you just responded too?

ESEA authorizes grants for elementary and secondary school programs for children of low-income families; school library resources, textbooks and other instructional materials; supplemental education centers and services; strengthening state education agencies; education research; and professional development for teachers.

Why do you believe a bureaucrat in D.C. is more familar with the needs of a local school district than the District itself? If the local school district doesn't have the money it can go to two sources, the local community or the state. That is a state responsibility. You do understand responsibility, don't you?

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Because you obviously didn’t read or understand YOUR previous post. You stated that ‘this explicitly says why we should’. The article you posted stated ‘there is also a compelling national interest’. What was included in the article that was ‘explicit’? Because of an opinion of compelling interest? Because at some point in our past our illustrious government decided to TAKE OVER a portion of the education system in this country doesn’t mean that we AGREE NOW. Further it may have SEEMED like a good idea then but the statistics do not support the success of said program over 45 years. Does it seem intelligent to continue the experiment?

I love this line of thinking that being the US should never change and we should just hit the reset button. Unless, that is, it falls into the conservative line of thinking.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Conservative said:
Why do you believe a bureaucrat in D.C. is more familar with the needs of a local school district than the District itself? If the local school district doesn't have the money it can go to two sources, the local community or the state. That is a state responsibility. You do understand responsibility, don't you?

Go to the community meaning we should not have public education it should be private education?

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Go to the community meaning we should not have public education it should be private education?

You really don't understand how schools are funded, do you? Public education is funded by the local public, not the national taxpayers.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Conservative said:
You really don't understand how schools are funded, do you? Public education is funded by the local public, not the national taxpayers.

Yes but so we don't have half of our states under funded and half of our states over funded, we redistribute accross the state to bring our education standards up...

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Yes but so we don't have half of our states under funded and half of our states over funded, we redistribute accross the state to bring our education standards up...

When you are underfunded what do you do? States that are underfunded need to cut spending or you go to the taxpayers of the state and ask for more. That isn't the role of the Federal Govt.

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
I love this line of thinking that being the US should never change and we should just hit the reset button. Unless, that is, it falls into the conservative line of thinking.

Huh? Ambigious. ESEA was original passed to run until 1970. It has been reauthorized every 5 years by BOTH parties since. NCLB is the most recent reauthorization of the Act and was passed in 2001 with a Republican (Conservative) WH and Congress. So, yes we HAVE been 'just hitting the reset button' every since. But of course you knew that being a educator and such.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Conservative said:
When you are underfunded what do you do? States that are underfunded need to cut spending or you go to the taxpayers of the state and ask for more. That isn't the role of the Federal Govt.

This is where you are failing to see the big picture. If a state is demographically poor how can they go to them for more money? THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BEGIN WITH. Look at Cleveland/Detroit, do you expect them to have a functioning school system without federal assistance?

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Dickieboy said:
Huh? Ambigious. ESEA was original passed to run until 1970. It has been reauthorized every 5 years by BOTH parties since. NCLB is the most recent reauthorization of the Act and was passed in 2001 with a Republican (Conservative) WH and Congress. So, yes we HAVE been 'just hitting the reset button' every since. But of course you knew that being a educator and such.

If you are resigning legislation into effect every year then you are not hitting the reset button. The reset button would take us back to the founding fathers laws.

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
This is where you are failing to see the big picture. If a state is demographically poor how can they go to them for more money? THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BEGIN WITH. Look at Cleveland/Detroit, do you expect them to have a functioning school system without federal assistance?

Oh, good Lord,, where does personal responsibility rest in your world. If a state is demographically poor that is their problem, not the Federal Taxpayer

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Conservative said:
Oh, good Lord,, where does personal responsibility rest in your world. If a state is demographically poor that is their problem, not the Federal Taxpayer

Right, people aren't born into poor societies. So you suggest that we take the poorest people in our country and give them no education? I think we should just take them and drop them into Uganda, they would have it just as good there.

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
I love this line of thinking that being the US should never change and we should just hit the reset button. Unless, that is, it falls into the conservative line of thinking.

Also consider the successfulness of policies enacted when one party controlled both the WH and Congress. The Democratic party passed ESEA. The Republican party reauthorized it as NCLB. And after TRILLIONS of dollars have been flushed through the FEDERAL system, instead of staying on the local level, test scores (of questionable value) have not improved vastly.

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Right, people aren't born into poor societies. So you suggest that we take the poorest people in our country and give them no education? I think we should just take them and drop them into Uganda, they would have it just as good there.

No, guess I should suggest that we have our entire paycheck sent to Washington so the bureaucrats there can decide how much I need to live on and then they can send that back to me

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
If you are resigning legislation into effect every year then you are not hitting the reset button. The reset button would take us back to the founding fathers laws.

Back to the founding fathers laws??? You do realize the Constitution has been ammended since the founding fathers...right? Why be so melodramatic? Do you feel NCLB is working? How about ESEA? If so what is your logic?

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Conservative said:
No, guess I should suggest that we have our entire paycheck sent to Washington so the bureaucrats there can decide how much I need to live on and then they can send that back to me

Strawman

When you have a response that is enlightening, please feel free to try again.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Dickieboy said:
Also consider the successfulness of policies enacted when one party controlled both the WH and Congress. The Democratic party passed ESEA. The Republican party reauthorized it as NCLB. And after TRILLIONS of dollars have been flushed through the FEDERAL system, instead of staying on the local level, test scores (of questionable value) have not improved vastly.

Yes, NCLB was a failed act. Who do we blame for NCLB, Bush... I think any legislation that is serving the sole purpose of preparing a student for a standardized test is bad legislation.

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Right, people aren't born into poor societies. So you suggest that we take the poorest people in our country and give them no education? I think we should just take them and drop them into Uganda, they would have it just as good there.

There you go again...misdirection. No one is saying that the poorest people do not get educated. WE ARE SAYING that the funding for their education come from the local (city/county/state) level. How hard is that to understand?

Conservative · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Strawman

When you have a response that is enlightening, please feel free to try again.

Since this thread is about the Jobs Bill, then isn't it time to understand the failures of "your" President?

Why aren't issues like this bothering you? Then there is Solyndra

From ABC News, today:
With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable of doing the work.
Vice President Joseph Biden heralded the Energy Department's $529 million loan to the start-up electric car company called Fisker as a bright new path to thousands of American manufacturing jobs. But two years after the loan was announced, the job of assembling the flashy electric Fisker Karma sports car has been outsourced to Finland.

Dickieboy · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Yes, NCLB was a failed act. Who do we blame for NCLB, Bush... I think any legislation that is serving the sole purpose of preparing a student for a standardized test is bad legislation.

Well then by extension ESEA is a failed act thus you have disproved YOUR OWN evidence. Thanks.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

Dickieboy said:
There you go again...misdirection. No one is saying that the poorest people do not get educated. WE ARE SAYING that the funding for their education come from the local (city/county/state) level. How hard is that to understand?

They get QUALITY education because they have federal funding.

j-mac · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
Yes, NCLB was a failed act. Who do we blame for NCLB

Teddy Kennedy....He wrote it.

j-mac

j-mac · Oct 21, 2011

Jryan said:
They get QUALITY education because they have federal funding.

That is laughable.

j-mac

Boo Radley · Oct 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Teddy Kennedy....He wrote it.

j-mac

Not really. The plan is an exact copy of the Texas plan, brough by Bush and his Sec. Of Ed. Kennedy worked out the legal language, but the plan itself solely comes from Bush and texas. It's more than a little misleading to try and give Kennedy credit for NCLB.

Jryan · Oct 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Teddy Kennedy....He wrote it.

j-mac

The legislation was proposed by President George W. Bush on January 23, 2001. It was coauthored by Representatives John Boehner (R-OH), George Miller (D-CA), and Senators Edward Kennedy (D-MA) and Judd Gregg (R-NH). The United States House of Representatives passed the bill on May 23, 2001 (voting 384–45),[6] and the United States Senate passed it on June 14, 2001 (voting 91–8).[7] President Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002.

Notice you only see coauthors with the exception of one name.

No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia