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Thread: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You do know there are only 53 Democrats in the Senate, right? Well, actually, 50 Dems, 2 DINOs and 1 Independend (Joe Lieberman) whom I wish would just go away. Anyway...

    Let me make a prediction going forward concering the President's Jobs plan. Here's what I believe will happen, keep in mind that the President has said to both parties in the House and the Senate..."if you have ideas you think will make my proposals better, I'm willing to listen..."

    It started with Senator Reid when he essentially scrapped the "Buffle Rule" and suggested the "Millionaire Surtax (@ 5%)". Since the Buffet Rule would only apply to millionaire hedge fund managers, it made sense to shift the income level from $200K to $1M. Of course, we know how the Senate vote went. But still, I ask you, Republicans and DINOs alike, "if millionaire corporations aren't the backbone of our economy, if in fact, it is the small business owners who hire the most people, why would you vote against legislation that shifts that tax burden from small businessmen (income level from $200K-$1M) to those who make +$1M?"
    Because it did nothing for the deficit.

    The President's Jobs plan will now go to the House[/URL] where it will be sliced and diced and voted on in smaller pieces. Again, I remind you that the President has said he doesn't have a problem with this as long as such bills meet his approval. (You'll know if they don't should should legislation meet with the veto pen.) With each passage of the smaller piece of legislation that would still accomplish what the President wants, just presented in smaller segments, Republicans will first attempt to water down his proposals by placing things they know won't stand a chance of passing in their bills, i.e., repeal of the PPACA (ObamaCare) and Dodd-Frank. Then with each bill that passes, Republicans will then attempt to take credit for job creation.

    Mark my words on this, ladies and gentlemen. Instead of simply doing what the country needs them to do which is to focus on job creation, watch as Republicans continue to play party politics placing party ahead of country even in the midst of a vast majority of the country in unified outcry for jobs!
    Nothing is going to pass that doesn't in some way address the deficit.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I think it is more like 'Once again the GOP plays directly into the hands of the Dems in Congress.' There is ample proof the Dems didn't want this bill to come up for a vote and the GOP step up and took the blame - again.
    I think the GOP should own the fact that they killed this bill. I fail to see how this "plan" is any different that the junk Obama's peddled before? This bill wouldn't have solved or helped a thing, because Obama is still approaching this problem with his Keynesian idea that the government can create jobs. The government's job is not to create a single job, it's to get the hell out of the way and let the private sector create jobs.
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean because tax cuts to working families actually stimulate the economy as opposed to the tax cuts for the rich, that don't?
    We don't need "tax cuts" what we need a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. Temporary band aide measures help some, but they create an aura of uncertainty. As an aside, raising taxes on "the rich" often end up hurting small business owners who file their taxes as individuals. We can't afford to raise taxes on small business owners. Also, the rich are entitled to their money as well, not just the middle and lower classes.
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by neocon1225 View Post
    We don't need "tax cuts" what we need a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. Temporary band aide measures help some, but they create an aura of uncertainty. As an aside, raising taxes on "the rich" often end up hurting small business owners who file their taxes as individuals. We can't afford to raise taxes on small business owners. Also, the rich are entitled to their money as well, not just the middle and lower classes.
    The Jobs act, that the GOP voted against, included tax incentives for small businesses. The tax breaks given to the rich under the Bush Administration were to have been temporary, supposedly as a way to stimulate the economy (trickle down economics). What happened instead was that the money didn't trickle down, it concentrated at the top. The only problem with this arrangement is that our consumer economy cannot prosper when most of the people can't afford to consume, because 85% of the country's wealth is owned by the top 20% who do not spend as much of their money (in the US) as the working class.
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by neocon1225 View Post
    We don't need "tax cuts" what we need a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. Temporary band aide measures help some, but they create an aura of uncertainty. As an aside, raising taxes on "the rich" often end up hurting small business owners who file their taxes as individuals. We can't afford to raise taxes on small business owners. Also, the rich are entitled to their money as well, not just the middle and lower classes.
    you are 100% right that we need to restructure the tax code. Complexity costs us hundreds of billions a year - that's hundreds of billions of growth we deliberately give up every year for the purpose of weighing ourselves down with unnecessary paperwork.

    incidentally, while I wholeheartedly approve of having Paul Ryan (pbuh) as your avatar, I think you need to find a picture that is somewhat pulled back, so that his halo and the throng of adoring angels that follow him around singing his praises can be seen.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-17-11 at 02:19 AM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean because tax cuts to working families actually stimulate the economy as opposed to the tax cuts for the rich, that don't?
    no. if we were to permanently flatten and lower the tax rates for working families, that would have a stimulative effect as well. If we were to permanently flatten and lower all tax rates we could have a massive stimulating effect without losing revenue (you could just be reducing nominal rates to their effective ones). it is the temporary tax credits that have no effect. They didn't work for Bush when he tried them in 2001, they didnt' work for Bush when he tried them in 2008, they didnt' work for Obama when he tried them in 2009, and they don't seem to be working for Obama in 2011. Because they don't work. Because people aren't stupid, and employers and employees both can count past 12.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. if we were to permanently flatten and lower the tax rates for working families, that would have a stimulative effect as well. If we were to permanently flatten and lower all tax rates we could have a massive stimulating effect without losing revenue (you could just be reducing nominal rates to their effective ones). it is the temporary tax credits that have no effect. They didn't work for Bush when he tried them in 2001, they didnt' work for Bush when he tried them in 2008, they didnt' work for Obama when he tried them in 2009, and they don't seem to be working for Obama in 2011. Because they don't work. Because people aren't stupid, and employers and employees both can count past 12.
    Flat taxes are regressive, which means they concentrate wealth at the top so they do not stimulate the economy as well as progressive taxes. This is because the rich do not spend as much of their wealth (in the US) as do the middle and lower working classes.
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Flattened tax rates =/= a flat tax.

    I would love to see a flat tax with a minimum no tax (say, set at 150% of the poverty line, which would make it progressive) zone, but that's not currently politically possible (as the example above is), and it's not what is under discussion here.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Flattened tax rates =/= a flat tax.

    I would love to see a flat tax with a minimum no tax (say, set at 150% of the poverty line, which would make it progressive) zone, but that's not currently politically possible (as the example above is), and it's not what is under discussion here.
    Right, the President's job's bill is under discussion. The GOP sure showed the majority of Americans that wanted the jobs bill to pass, who was the boss, didn't they?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Jobs act, that the GOP voted against, included tax incentives for small businesses.
    A bad bill is not made any better by a sweetener. I am glad the Republicans (and two vulnerable Democrats) did the right thing.

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