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Thread: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    [QUOTE=Thunder;1059904200]and that was an increase of what percent?[/QUOTE

    About 200%, so do we pay debt service on the percentage change or the actual debt? 1.7 trillion vs. 4.2 trillion, which one has the higher debt service?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is lower because of Bush tax cuts and govt. revenue grew until Democrats helped tank the economy in 2008
    How does that factor in? You said Reagan lowered taxes and that's what fixed the recession. The tax rate is already lower than that, so... what the hell is your point? And again, I'll do your work for you. If you want to compare Reagan to Obama, first you need to compare the recessions. Politifact does this for us:

    Politifact: Comparing Recessions
    Length of the recession
    VERDICT: Call it a wash -- for now.

    Economic growth or contraction
    VERDICT: They're close, but the current recession will likely end up somewhat worse.

    Peak unemployment
    VERDICT: Worse under Reagan.

    Rise in unemployment
    VERDICT: Worse under Obama

    Long-term unemployment
    VERDICT: Much worse under Obama.

    Industrial production
    Industrial production

    The stock market
    VERDICT: Worse under Obama.

    Foreclosures
    VERDICT: Much worse under Obama.

    Bank failures
    VERDICT: It's a wash so far, but things could get worse in the current recession before they get better.
    Now, I know you're going to start drooling to blame Obama, but keep in mind, this is a nonpartisan organization so they are only comparing the recessions - this has nothing to do with who did a better job.

    So back to Palin's claim that Reagan's recession was more severe. The barometers we examined aren't necessarily equal measurements of the magnitude, but collectively they paint a picture that the current recession -- so far -- is worse than the one under Reagan. Even if we had decided to include inflation as a factor, the measurements would still indicate the current recession is worse. So we find Palin's claim to be False.
    Either way, you can see some major differences between these two recessions. While Reagan struggled with unemployment, long-term unemployment has been decidedly worse in this recession. Also, the housing market, stock market, industrial production, personal income, and foreclosures are also much worse. Reagan, however, had to deal with skyrocketing inflation. So, clearly, these recessions are two totally different beasts. Knowing this, and knowing that taxes are already far lower than in Reagan's Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, what did Reagan do that Obama should have done? I am really trying to have a discussion here, so if you could give an actual answer, that would be fantastic.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    About 200%, so do we pay debt service on the percentage change or the actual debt? 1.7 trillion vs. 4.2 trillion, which one has the higher debt service?
    so Reagan increased our national debt by 200%, and Obama has increased it by less than 100%.

    Nevermind that when you factor in inflation, Reagan's increase in our debt is even greater. Clearly, Reagan was not the amazing Conservative success story that folks make him out to be.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    so Reagan increased our national debt by 200%, and Obama has increased it by less than 100%.

    Nevermind that when you factor in inflation, Reagan's increase in our debt is even greater. Clearly, Reagan was not the amazing Conservative success story that folks make him out to be.
    Yes, Reagan increased the debt by 1.7 trillion dollars and Obama increased the debt in 3 years by 4.2 trillion dollars. Inflation has nothing to do with the debt service. It is paid year on debt at that time.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    How does that factor in? You said Reagan lowered taxes and that's what fixed the recession. The tax rate is already lower than that, so... what the hell is your point? And again, I'll do your work for you. If you want to compare Reagan to Obama, first you need to compare the recessions. Politifact does this for us:

    Politifact: Comparing Recessions


    Now, I know you're going to start drooling to blame Obama, but keep in mind, this is a nonpartisan organization so they are only comparing the recessions - this has nothing to do with who did a better job.



    Either way, you can see some major differences between these two recessions. While Reagan struggled with unemployment, long-term unemployment has been decidedly worse in this recession. Also, the housing market, stock market, industrial production, personal income, and foreclosures are also much worse. Reagan, however, had to deal with skyrocketing inflation. So, clearly, these recessions are two totally different beasts. Knowing this, and knowing that taxes are already far lower than in Reagan's Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, what did Reagan do that Obama should have done? I am really trying to have a discussion here, so if you could give an actual answer, that would be fantastic.
    What matters in determiing the severity of the recession is the affect on the people and the cost of living was much higher in the 81-82 recession than it was during the 2007-2009 recession. That is what matters, not an evaluation from a bunch of economists. How would you feel paying 17.5% for a home and having double digit inflation affect the products that you buy and need?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    so Reagan increased our national debt by 200%, and Obama has increased it by less than 100%.

    Nevermind that when you factor in inflation, Reagan's increase in our debt is even greater. Clearly, Reagan was not the amazing Conservative success story that folks make him out to be.
    Yes, actually, by the numbers, Reagan grew the Gross National Debt by a larger percentage than Obama:

    National Debt By Year
    (In millions)
    Gross Federal Debt 1981: 994,828
    Gross Federal Debt 1983: 1,371,660

    (1,371,660-994,828)/1,371,660 = 27.47269732%

    (In millions)
    Gross Federal Debt 2009: 11,875,851
    Gross Federal Debt 2011 (projected): 15,476,243

    (15,476,243 - 11,875,851)/15,476,243 = 23.26399243%

    Obama has grown Gross Federal Debt by just over 4 percentage points less than Ronald Reagan in each of their first 3 years.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What matters in determiing the severity of the recession is the affect on the people and the cost of living was much higher in the 81-82 recession than it was during the 2007-2009 recession. That is what matters, not an evaluation from a bunch of economists. How would you feel paying 17.5% for a home and having double digit inflation affect the products that you buy and need?
    Yeah, I don't know why I thought I should listen to economists about the economy. Hey Conservative, do you know what the weather will be like in Charlotte tomorrow? I'd tune into a meteorologist, but why bother when I have you, right?

    I am glad I spent time putting all of that together for you to just give another canned response. So, Conservative, besides raising taxes to 1981's level and then slowly lowering them like Reagan, what could Obama have done that Reagan did?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Yes, actually, by the numbers, Reagan grew the Gross National Debt by a larger percentage than Obama:

    National Debt By Year
    (In millions)
    Gross Federal Debt 1981: 994,828
    Gross Federal Debt 1983: 1,371,660

    (1,371,660-994,828)/1,371,660 = 27.47269732%

    (In millions)
    Gross Federal Debt 2009: 11,875,851
    Gross Federal Debt 2011 (projected): 15,476,243

    (15,476,243 - 11,875,851)/15,476,243 = 23.26399243%

    Obama has grown Gross Federal Debt by just over 4 percentage points less than Ronald Reagan in each of their first 3 years.
    LOL, so we pay debt service on the percentage change or the actual dollars? Interesting

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Yeah, I don't know why I thought I should listen to economists about the economy. Hey Conservative, do you know what the weather will be like in Charlotte tomorrow? I'd tune into a meteorologist, but why bother when I have you, right?

    I am glad I spent time putting all of that together for you to just give another canned response. So, Conservative, besides raising taxes to 1981's level and then slowly lowering them like Reagan, what could Obama have done that Reagan did?
    I know this is the Obama record, how about interpreting that record for me?

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)

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