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Thread: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    What is the lie? How could that data lie? Data doesn't lie, only how you interpret it. Are you misinterpreting the data?
    How many private sector jobs did the private economy create during the Bush administration? Does the graph show it?
    How you show the data can lead to a lie. You know this. In your heart of hearts you do. And if you look at just the data without your partisan hat on (which I am fine with you wearing) you will recognize that this particular graph was created with the intention of misrepresenting rather than informing.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    How many private sector jobs did the private economy create during the Bush administration? Does the graph show it?
    How you show the data can lead to a lie. You know this. In your heart of hearts you do. And if you look at just the data without your partisan hat on (which I am fine with you wearing) you will recognize that this particular graph was created with the intention of misrepresenting rather than informing.
    That would be another chart. They may have it, if you want to look. You see, this chart is about the downward trend in job loss. If you want a chart about the upward trend of job creation during the first six years of his administration, I am sure it exists.

    You know, let's say I could magically add Bush's data from earlier dates in there, and then some idiot comes in and says "but your leaving out the millions of jobs Clinton created just before that...". Where does it end? It's not relevant to the topic of the chart, so it isn't included. It's on a different chart where it belongs.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Well then, you obviously did not listen to the news much in '08. Obama wasn't even a twinkle in people's eyes when this economic downturn began. Do you not remember the housing market crash? I am slightly confused. If you need a refresher, I can help you on that subject.
    You are very confused. No problem.

    October 2008 -- Who was likely to win? McCain? or the one term Marxist?
    If you were a successful business person and you knew that the three horsemen of the Apocalypse were coming you way to bankrupt you, to confound you, to seize your wealth, what would you do? Would you wait until January?

    November 2008 -- The Marxist wins. Now what? Do you accelerate laying people off? Or do you wait until January? Do you read what others say about Dreams from My Communist Father and wait or do you begin shedding jobs before the Marxist is in position to strike you and your business dead? What do you do to protect yourself?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I see now. Whyso used your post as a crutch to validate his claim. He then made up the rest to 'make a point'. In review it looks like his point was 'your dumb...I can be dumb too'.

    Sorry for the confusion.
    Nail on the head. He chose about 8 random statistics with no historical data to back them up, so I did the same with Bush and Reagan. In no way do I really implicate them for those numbers, since they are just random pieces of information, but if he's going to spam his random stats, then I'll do the same right back to him.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You are very confused. No problem.

    October 2008 -- Who was likely to win? McCain? or the one term Marxist?
    If you were a successful business person and you knew that the three horsemen of the Apocalypse were coming you way to bankrupt you, to confound you, to seize your wealth, what would you do? Would you wait until January?

    November 2008 -- The Marxist wins. Now what? Do you accelerate laying people off? Or do you wait until January? Do you read what others say about Dreams from My Communist Father and wait or do you begin shedding jobs before the Marxist is in position to strike you and your business dead? What do you do to protect yourself?
    That's a great story, but it's a story. Do you have any sort of proof to back that up? I can cite source after source that show how the economy crashed, but all you have is some random conspiracy plot that you thought up in your head. I think if you want to know why businesses started laying people off, you may want to investigate the housing market crash, the "big short", the AAA-rated securities, insolvency of hundreds of domestic banks, and the inability to get a loan of any sort during that period.

    No offense, but I don't think you have ever read a news article.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 10-25-11 at 12:31 AM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    How many private sector jobs did the private economy create during the Bush administration? .
    Jan 2001 private sector employment 111634

    Jan 2009 private sector employment 110981

    CES0500000001_180170_1319513331528.jpg


    Download:
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
    2001 111634 111624 111555 111227 111146 110910 110737 110544 110276 109918 109575 109368
    2002 109214 109054 108989 108892 108814 108824 108732 108671 108659 108772 108758 108595
    2003 108640 108484 108286 108252 108274 108233 108231 108266 108421 108570 108611 108724
    2004 108882 108913 109213 109437 109747 109841 109883 109984 110135 110465 110493 110624
    2005 110718 110949 111095 111441 111583 111847 112122 112311 112392 112492 112796 112934
    2006 113247 113533 113795 113961 113965 114049 114200 114347 114432 114438 114628 114803
    2007 114993 115051 115251 115308 115419 115469 115486 115391 115396 115470 115568 115606
    2008 115610 115482 115395 115209 114969 114752 114487 114170 113736 113245 112458 111822
    2009 110981 110260 109473 108700 108374 107936 107649 107434 107221 106971 106937 106835



    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce
    Last edited by winston53660; 10-25-11 at 12:32 AM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    How is he shaving the data? When does it end? Does he need to show the numbers as long as history records them? Generally, when showing numbers, you only show the numbers that are relevant, and in the case of job loss, that's what you are looking at. Why would the Bureau of Labor Statistics feel the need to "shave" numbers?
    It is good you ask the questions. View the data from the statisticians view point. Omit your partisan view for a moment. Should you select that perfect moment in history to show a symmetrical situation with Bush (policies) losing jobs in an increasing crescendo while the Marxist's (policies) side of the equation shows an equal rise? Not if you seek the truth. But certainly you would if you believe that advantage is more important than truth.

    Do you think that the person who created this graph was non-partisan? Or is it more likely that he or she was out to provide an easily misinterpreted picture to show that Bush was bad and Obama was good?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 10-25-11 at 12:32 AM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That would be another chart. They may have it, if you want to look. You see, this chart is about the downward trend in job loss. If you want a chart about the upward trend of job creation during the first six years of his administration, I am sure it exists.

    You know, let's say I could magically add Bush's data from earlier dates in there, and then some idiot comes in and says "but your leaving out the millions of jobs Clinton created just before that...". Where does it end? It's not relevant to the topic of the chart, so it isn't included. It's on a different chart where it belongs.
    You do what you have done and agreed is the right approach if your path is to use statistics, graphs, and charts to tell the Big Lie.
    Your path might be different if you were attempting to develop real insights into the policies that led to the data.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is good you ask the questions. View the data from the statisticians view point. Omit the partisan view for a moment. Should you select that perfect moment in history to show a symmetrical situation with Bush (policies) losing jobs in an increasing crescendo while the Marxist's side of the equation shows an equal rise? Not if you seek the truth. But certainly if you believe that advantage is more important than truth.

    Do you think that the person who created this graph was non-partisan? Or is it more likely that he or she was out to provide an easily misinterpreted picture to show that Bush was band and Obama was good?
    Again, this is you adding conspiracy to fact. Could it be true? Maybe, but not likely (just like your crackpot scheme you cooked up earlier about what caused all of the job loss). What is more likely? Someone was charged with the task of creating a chart that showed where the trend of job loss began and how much, and how much recovery we have had since. Or some random statistician at the Bureau of Labor Statistics was like, "yeah man, I am going to make this graph that really makes Bush look bad!"

    My turn to ask a question, Misterveritis:

    If you were analyzing the market crash, and one of the major factors was job loss, would you give a **** about any numbers before the downward turn? If you aren't a partisan hack, the answer would be no, because your job is not to prove that it was or wasn't Bush's fault - your only job is the read the data that matters and make decisions based off of it.

    Again, any success Bush had before this is irrelevant, because this isn't about whether or not Bush caused it or Obama caused it. It is simply data from relevant dates. You're putting the spin on it.

    Are you trolling me right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You do what you have done and agreed is the right approach if your path is to use statistics, graphs, and charts to tell the Big Lie.
    Your path might be different if you were attempting to develop real insights into the policies that led to the data.
    What exactly is your point? Why do you want to see more data than what is provided?
    Last edited by whysoserious; 10-25-11 at 12:38 AM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That's a great story, but it's a story. Do you have any sort of proof to back that up? I can cite source after source that show how the economy crashed, but all you have is some random conspiracy plot that you thought up in your head. I think if you want to know why businesses started laying people off, you may want to investigate the housing market crash, the "big short", the AAA-rated securities, insolvency of hundreds of domestic banks, and the inability to get a loan of any sort during that period.

    No offense, but I don't think you have ever read a news article.
    I just provided insights that fit the data. The whole point of statistics is to inform one's insights.

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