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Thread: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

  1. #1251
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    interesting that you haven't proven the numbers for Obama to be false. Thanks

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Obama Gains vs. GOP on Jobs as Congress Hits a New Low

    "Barack Obama has jumped to a 15-point lead over the Republicans in Congress in trust to handle job creation, a sign the beleaguered president’s $450 billion jobs package has hit its mark in public opinion. Fifty-two percent support the plan – and most say it just might work.

    Overall approval of the U.S. Congress, meanwhile, has dropped to its lowest in polls dating back to the mid-1970s. And of the eight in 10 Americans who are dissatisfied with the way the country’s political system is working, more blame the Republicans in Washington than the president."

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...its-a-new-low/
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #1253
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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Obama Gains vs. GOP on Jobs as Congress Hits a New Low

    "Barack Obama has jumped to a 15-point lead over the Republicans in Congress in trust to handle job creation, a sign the beleaguered president’s $450 billion jobs package has hit its mark in public opinion. Fifty-two percent support the plan – and most say it just might work.

    Overall approval of the U.S. Congress, meanwhile, has dropped to its lowest in polls dating back to the mid-1970s. And of the eight in 10 Americans who are dissatisfied with the way the country’s political system is working, more blame the Republicans in Washington than the president."

    Obama Gains vs. GOP on Jobs as Congress Hits a New Low - ABC News
    I am sure the Obama Administration loves having people like you to use. Great job on their behalf, too bad you don't care much about your own credibility. Amazing how Obama's approval ratings are so low, wonder what the public gets that you don't? could it be his actual record?

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am sure the Obama Administration loves having people like you to use. Great job on their behalf, too bad you don't care much about your own credibility. Amazing how Obama's approval ratings are so low, wonder what the public gets that you don't? could it be his actual record?

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-u...post1059891740
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Check out how much Conservative knows about statistics:

    Here is where I provided some context for all of his numbers:
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)

    From http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls:
    The mean GDP growth from 1998 to 2007 was 5.37%. That includes the years of the dot com boom, and does not include any of the recession years. What is more telling is the average percentage change which is -.063011%. What that means is that GDP had already begun growing at a smaller rate as 1998 to 2007 progressed.

    Now, lets switch to quarters, which are the numbers you were using. During the Bush years, the average GDP growth per year was:

    Under George W Bush, the mean change in GDP per quarter (using 2005 dollars) was 2.19%. I excluded the last two quarters of his term as they were the beginning of the recession and are statistical outliers. I will also remove the first two quarters from Obama's tenure as they are also outliers.

    Conclusion

    The mean percent growth using 2005 dollars during Obama's tenure (excluding the outliers) is 2.4625%. The GDP has, on average, grown faster during Obama's tenure than it did during George Bush's.

    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
    From 09/09 to 09/11, the labor force has grown by 77,000. Unemployment rates hit their peak around that time, and have been falling ever since.

    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
    That does not appear to be the case. The president does not begin to implement their own policies until around September after the election year. So, from 09/09 to 09/11, a total of 1,234,000 jobs have been added.

    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)

    Yes, from "Debt By the Penny", it appears debt from Sept `09-Sept '11 has increased by about 3 trillion. However, under Bush, the debt increase from Sept `07 - Sept '09 is 2.779 trillion. That's a difference of of 7%. It is substantial, I would like to see it dropped, but it is not as jaw-dropping as your statistic would have you believe.

    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)

    There is nothing anyone can say to you about this. The S&P was very clear that the biggest reason our credit was downgraded was due to the hyper-partisanship displayed in Congress. The budget was also a major factor.

    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97

    The United States Misery Index


    Yeah, no ****, that's what happens when you inherit an economy in shambles. The misery index was at 11.4% during the last few months of the Bush administration.

    38-41% JAR

    I have no idea what this is. Sorry.

    and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)

    Yes, and from the Gallop Poll, Reagan was a 47% approval rating in his third year, only 6 percentage points above Obama. Who gives a damn? No wonder so many people disapprove when they listen to the nonsense you post.
    His Response

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why are you using 2005 dollars and not current dollars, BEA.gov shows the numbers I posted and came out in the Commerce report release so comparing 2011 information to 2010 data the numbers are shrinking which shows that Obama policies failing
    LOL, so I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Using one year's dollars is how you just for inflation. Your source and mine, bea.gov, chose to use 2005 dollars. Here is the link (I'll post a screen shot but I had to do some Excel Work to get the averages):

    http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls
    Attachment 67117096

    See where it says GDB in billions of chained 2005 dollars. Those are the numbers I used, as they are inflation adjusted dollars.
    Trying to explain to him what is going on. His response:
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Better tell that to the Commerce Dept who then screwed up their release. 2005 dollars mean nothing today, the numbers are what they are and affect both revenue and expenses.

    Don't see Commerce Department using 2005 numbers
    My favorite part was "2005 dollars mean nothing today"! llololol This guy is citing us statistics?

    So I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    It just means they aren't adjusted for inflation... it's not a huge deal but most people prefer to work in inflation adjusted dollars because they tell a better picture. And, again, it does not have to be 2005, it could be any year. You could use 1869 dollars if you wanted.

    --------------------

    You seemed to dismiss the idea that the previous president's budget does not end until Sept/Oct of the following year. Is that a fact you wish to dispute?

    Also, if Bush allowed the misery rating to reach above 11% (which he did) does that make him a terrible president as well?
    Trying to get him to understand why we adjust for inflation, and he said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Most people live and work in the present paying present expenses from current revenue.
    LOL whatever the **** that means. So then I go on to respond:

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Are you dense? You use inflation adjusted dollars so that you can compare other years. For instance, GDP in 2010 and 2011 could technically be the same, but due to inflation, 2011 would appear larger. If you don't adjust for inflation, you are missing a key element in comparing dollars per year. Inflation rates change per year, so if you compare 2011 dollars to 2010, and 2010 dollars to 2009 dollars, but you do not account for inflation, you will get an incorrect change in GDP.

    It's simple really. Do you want me to do a little math tutorial for you? I'll do it if you want, I really don't mind.
    I got a little mean there, but only out of frustration of talking to someone about stats who has no idea what they are. And he responds with his usual posting up of random numbers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    GDP Percentage Change 2009-2011

    Notice 2010 numbers of 3.9, 3.8, 2.5, 2.3 and then 2011 .4 and 1.3

    These show why Obama is a failure

    I II III IV I II III IV I II
    -6.7 -0.7 1.7 3.8 3.9 3.8 2.5 2.3 0.4 1.3
    Which is when I decided to teach him what adjusting for inflation is:
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    For Conservative, here is a tutorial in inflation adjusted dollars:

    It's year one, and guess what buddy? You have one whole dollar in your pocket! Year one has a nice inflation rate of 2%. Year 2 has an inflation rate of 3%, and year 3 has an inflation rate of 5%. In year 1, you earned 5 cents, nice job! In year two, you earned 10 cents! Wow, way to go! In year 3, you earned nothing. You're a sad panda.

    Money You Earned With Inflation
    Jan 1 Year 1: 1
    Jan 1 Year 2: 1.02 + .05 = 1.07
    Jan 1 Year 3: (1.07)(1.03) + .1 = 1.20
    Jan 1 Year 4: (1.2)(1.05) + 0 = 1.26

    Percent Change Without Adjusting For Inflation
    Year 1: 7%
    Year 2: 10.83%
    Year 3: 4.76%

    But in reality, you didn't earn **** in year 3. It should be a zero, but because of inflation, you netted positive. So, adjusting for inflation:

    Year 1: (1.07)/(1.02) = 1.05
    Year 2: (1.20)/[(1.03)(1.02)] = 1.14
    Year 3: (1.26)/[(1.05)(1.03)(1.02)] = 1.14

    Percent Change In Dollars Adjusted For Inflation
    Year 1: 5%
    Year 2: 7.89%
    Year 3: 0%

    --------------------------------------------

    Do you get the picture now?



    You do not seem to understand or are not willing to admit how actual math is done. Don't talk numbers if you don't understand them. It's easy to understand, if you want to compare numbers that involve dollars from year to year, you need to adjust for inflation.
    And it was right about that time, that I realized this guy was using the inflation adjusted numbers the whole time and didn't even know it (because he has no idea how to read the numbers):
    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Are you ****ing kidding me? Those are the 2005 adjusted values that you are bitching about me using. You're using them and you don't even know it. You're mad about that? Here's some values for Bush:

    2001 Q3 - -1.1%
    2006 Q3 - .1%
    2008 Q1 - -1.8%

    If you are mad at Obama, who has only produced positive growth in GDP, you must have been ****ing furious at GWB. Oh wait, you're a hack who doesn't even understand the numbers he's reading.



    I see you have given up on logical discussion. That's good, it doesn't suit you. You're more of an empty rhetoric, say a bunch of things with no substance kind of guy.
    -----------------------------------

    Sorry this post was so long, but I wanted to show you the brief history on Conservative's lack of knowledge with numbers and my history of exposing him for it. Any of those links will take you to each specific post I was referring to.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Amazing how Obama's approval ratings are so low, wonder what the public gets that you don't? could it be his actual record?
    If you had actually read the post you responded to, you would have seen that the Republicans approval rating is much lower than the presidents in job creation, which is the public's highest priority.

    Just can't bring yourself to that realization can you?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Check out how much Conservative knows about statistics:

    Here is where I provided some context for all of his numbers:


    His Response



    LOL, so I said:


    Trying to explain to him what is going on. His response:


    My favorite part was "2005 dollars mean nothing today"! llololol This guy is citing us statistics?

    So I said:


    Trying to get him to understand why we adjust for inflation, and he said:



    LOL whatever the **** that means. So then I go on to respond:



    I got a little mean there, but only out of frustration of talking to someone about stats who has no idea what they are. And he responds with his usual posting up of random numbers:



    Which is when I decided to teach him what adjusting for inflation is:


    And it was right about that time, that I realized this guy was using the inflation adjusted numbers the whole time and didn't even know it (because he has no idea how to read the numbers):


    -----------------------------------

    Sorry this post was so long, but I wanted to show you the brief history on Conservative's lack of knowledge with numbers and my history of exposing him for it. Any of those links will take you to each specific post I was referring to.
    Wow, pardon me for not responding to your novel as what matters are the following, what is happening right now and what the American people actually see. Do you really believe the Americna electorate is going to compare Obama to Bush? Why was Obama hired in the first place. These are the results he generated

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
    Last edited by Conservative; 10-24-11 at 07:20 PM.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you had actually read the post you responded to, you would have seen that the Republicans approval rating is much lower than the presidents in job creation, which is the public's highest priority.

    Just can't bring yourself to that realization can you?
    Yet, Obama and Romney are virtually tied which of course you ignored.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wow, pardon me for not responding to your novel as what matters are the following, what is happening right now and what the American people actually see

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
    this (I actually took the time to read it)

    LMFAO HAHA you crack me up conservative.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    this (I actually took the time to read it)

    LMFAO HAHA you crack me up conservative.
    Another opportunity to explain the numbers to me since no voter is going to inflation adjust the numbers or compare them to historical data. They are what they are today, what inflation have we had since he took office? How do you apply inflation to the unemployment and employment numbers? why was Obama hired in the first place and how do these results help his re-election?

    Obama economic results in 2011,
    .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
    25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
    2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
    4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
    Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
    Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
    38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)

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