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Thread: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Context? 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans? When did Bush ever have that many? 2.6 million fewer employed, when did Bush ever have that? Almost 13 misery index, when did Bush have that? 4.2 trillion added to the debt in 3 years, when did Bush ever have that? 39% JAR? When did Bush have that during his first term?

    You want badly to insert inflation into the numbers, well insert inflation into those numbers? Those are the numbers that the American people are looking at and actually feel.
    nephew tugs on pants leg "can I have some candy?"
    No.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    nephew tugs on pants leg "can I have some candy?"
    No.
    Look, I understand why Obama supporters want to ignore the numbers but they are what they are. Results matter no matter how you spin it

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Ya know what lets try to at least partially get this thread back on track.

    Can ANYONE point to an example of Republican's making any attempt at compromise with the current administration?

    All I can think of is that Gang of Six which quickly got thrown under the Bus by the TP congressmen
    As a conservative I find nothing that Obama has implemented on the economy worthy of support as this country wasn't built on the policies he is implementing. How does anyone compromise with someone whose rhetoric is so damning and divisive? There is nothing in either job's bill worth compromise on as it promotes nothing more than a "sugar high" for the American economy. Once the Federal dollars dry up it becomes the responsibility of the local taxpayers and thus kicking the can down the road

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As a conservative I find nothing that Obama has implemented on the economy worthy of support as this country wasn't built on the policies he is implementing. How does anyone compromise with someone whose rhetoric is so damning and divisive? There is nothing in either job's bill worth compromise on as it promotes nothing more than a "sugar high" for the American economy. Once the Federal dollars dry up it becomes the responsibility of the local taxpayers and thus kicking the can down the road
    So if the only solution to fix the economy and have good old America back is to go against something in the constitution, you wouldn't be for it?
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Rule of law. ist' important.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    So if the only solution to fix the economy and have good old America back is to go against something in the constitution, you wouldn't be for it?
    What specific policy should the Republicans compromise on? You have shown that you aren't very good on specifics so another chance for you?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, I understand why Obama supporters want to ignore the numbers but they are what they are. Results matter no matter how you spin it
    Fine.... not going to argue with ya.... let me give you a couple pointers when dealing with those of us on the left...

    1. Focus on how WE believe the current administration (Obama) has fail us.... giving too much ground to tax breaks for the rich, caving in on a single payer health plan, etc... just not standing his ground in general.
    2. If a previous statistic is not gaining traction amend it, and by all means make sure it is accurate... Simply stating the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over isn't going to accomplish any goal except perhaps pumping your post count.
    3. Actually think about the questions poised to you..... wouldn't you at least like to have a conversation that drives somewhere rather that merely just cutting and pasting the same tired data over and over again?
    4. Be willing to admit the deficiencies of what you support.... I guarantee that most lefties here are more than willing to expose the potential problems with ideologies with what they espouse... its how solutions are discovered. Nothing is perfect.
    5. Be open to opinions that are different than yours. Quite often human beings come upon information they did not have before which necessitates inclusion into their current world view. Unfortunately, this is not an immediate process... even for those of us on the left
    6. IF you are sure you are right.... I mean absolutely sure. Figure out other ways to present the concept. Repeating the same concept in the same way ad nauseum typically never achieves the desired result. If they didn't understand it the 1st time chances are they won't understand it the 5th, or 6th, or 7th times either
    7. LOGIC, LOGIC, LOGIC... Learn it... Live it... Know it... (yeah yeah I'm old.... It's a 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' reference)


    And above anything else IF ANY PIECE OF INFORMATION EVER MAKES YOU PAUSE AND THINK ABOUT IT PAY EXTRA SPECIAL ATTENTION TO IT... this is typically where learning is done

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Example: the linked graph shows the Dow Jones Average since 1900. Obviously, the DOW is not the only indicator of economic or Presidential success, but it's part of the picture. In 1980 Reagan inherited about 15 years of going nowhere. Then, 3/4's of the way through his first term, things started climbing rapidly and didn't stop until the tech stock bubble burst in the last year or so of the Clinton administration (followed shortly by 9/11). So, Reagan gets credit for incredible financial gain. Bush1 didn't last long in office, but nobody blames him for much economically because prosperity continued. Clinton is credited, too, because growth continued under his watch (again, until the last year). Then, starting in Clinton's last year it trended downward severely until 2002 when it headed up again.

    So, the DOW turned around under Bush2's 1st term and he was re-elected. Things tanked the last year of his term (similar to Clinton's), and now it's turning around again.

    The problem is that it takes awhile for prosperity to return even after the DOW recovers. President Reagan, Bush, and Clinton are all ok with everyone because they prospered (despite the downward trend starting under Clinton). Bush gets bashed because people didn't really get back to prosperity, and Obama will get bashed too if the DOW doesn't get back up to where it was when he took office and continue to sustain growth.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Rule of law. ist' important.
    Sure it is... can you explain the relevance of this statement?

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    Re: Republicans block Obama jobs bill

    Swit;1059897501]Fine.... not going to argue with ya.... let me give you a couple pointers when dealing with those of us on the left...

    1. Focus on how WE believe the current administration (Obama) has fail us.... giving too much ground to tax breaks for the rich, caving in on a single payer health plan, etc... just not standing his ground in general.
    Conservatives don't believe that allowing people to keep more of their own money is an expense to the govt. but it is class warfare. Conservatives believe that healthcare insurance is a personal responsibility and know that the single payer system has failed all over the world.

    2. If a previous statistic is not gaining traction amend it, and by all means make sure it is accurate... Simply stating the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over isn't going to accomplish any goal except perhaps pumping your post count.

    The previous statistics have been ignored by liberals but are what they are and have led to the 39% JAR. Stating the same thing over and over again is the only thing that resonates with a liberal even though they are ignored. They are results that will be on the ballot in 2012

    3. Actually think about the questions poised to you..... wouldn't you at least like to have a conversation that drives somewhere rather that merely just cutting and pasting the same tired data over and over again?
    Been here a long time and have responded to every question raised, how about responding to the data posted and tell me how they are out of context almost 3 years after Obama took office?

    4. Be willing to admit the deficiencies of what you support.... I guarantee that most lefties here are more than willing to expose the potential problems with ideologies with what they espouse... its how solutions are discovered. Nothing is perfect.
    I have admitted when I am wrong many times over the past year or so but when I post data, give the location of that data, then never gets that data refuted but instead distorted, what is their to admit. When someone posts that there has been a job gain in the private sector that is a lie or misstatement. There have been jobs created in the private sector but not enough to generate a net job gain as more have been lost than created. That is shown at BLS but someone here wants to distort that reality

    I have yet to find a liberal willing to admit they are wrong as their ideology trumps reality thus the question what is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty?

    5. Be open to opinions that are different than yours. Quite often human beings come upon information they did not have before which necessitates inclusion into their current world view. Unfortunately, this is not an immediate process... even for those of us on the left
    My entire principles are based upon logic, common sense, and actual results. Provide data that meets those standards and I will agree with them. There is nothing logical about demonizing individual wealth creation, private business, and promoting a welfare state

    6. IF you are sure you are right.... I mean absolutely sure. Figure out other ways to present the concept. Repeating the same concept in the same way ad nauseum typically never achieves the desired result. If they didn't understand it the 1st time chances are they won't understand it the 5th, or 6th, or 7th times either\
    For someone that has been here over a year and if you have followed my posts then you will realize that there aren't many here that will admit they are wrong, they just ignore what is presented that refutes their OPINIONS. The data posted is what it is which isn't open to interpretation. Not understanding data is a problem the left has which shows their ideology trumps reality

    7. LOGIC, LOGIC, LOGIC... Learn it... Live it... Know it... (yeah yeah I'm old.... It's a 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' reference)
    Logic is what I use all the time, if you spend over 842 billion dollars to stimulate job creation and over two years later you have more unemployed and greater debt that is a failure.


    And above anything else IF ANY PIECE OF INFORMATION EVER MAKES YOU PAUSE AND THINK ABOUT IT PAY EXTRA SPECIAL ATTENTION TO IT... this is typically where learning is done
    That is why I always post data and the source of that data. No one has refuted that data and in fact have even proven the data correct yet no one has acknowledged that thus I have to continue to post it.

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