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Thread: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

  1. #301
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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Yes - mostly directed to you, but I wanted to point out that some folks are reading the links. And seriously, thanks for the links. It helps for a better quality debate.

    Please look again at the quotes. Notice that Jaques Chirac says, "Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." This suggests he believed in a continuing arms program. NOT a halted program. Notice also that he says this in 2002, WELL AFTER "Clintion's people bombed Iraq."

    Notice also that Al Gore's comment also happens in 2002, while Bush was gearing up to invade in 2003.

    There are many comments there and MOST of them occur between 1998 and 2003, the time during which Inspectors were denied entry, and four long years during which nuclear, biological, and chemical production facilities could easily have been dismantled or converted.

    If the police turn their backs to give a criminal the chance to throw away a smoking gun, they can hardly be surprised when they turn around and see the smoking gun is gone.
    Chirac later says we didn't have the evidence. But, suggests isn't really enough. Continued armament progams is also not the same. If he's speaking of some convential weapons, which I think he is, he would be correct. However, we were largely talking about chemical weapons at the time. We were more concerned with Sarin gas for example and other such weapons. This Saddam did not have. He was largely contained and not the tyope of threat to justify the cost of removing him. It has to do with claims matching the intel.

    Before we had left, we documented a large amount of distruction. There was likeihood that some were left over, but again, that was the claim. When we got to the intel, Bush's people ahd to reach beyond what we had. They used doubted intel to do that. They reach in and pulled out al Libi, a person who was tortured and told us what the CIA doubted he could even know. In made it into Bush argument for war. We used Curveball, who I linked was doubted. We also used Chalibi and his heros in error, someone who betrayed us once before. Remove this intel, and we had nothing.

    Bush spoke as if we had the goods. He ignored doubts, from the tubes to moble labs to links to al Qaeda. He started with the answer, and tried to produce something to match his claim. He failed, so he just went with the doubt stuff.

    We needed not what people thought, but what evidence they had. Despite what Chirc said he thought, he concluded we did not have the evidence to support such thinking. Shouldn't evidence be the critieria?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Yes, but having chemical weapons and using them on the Kurds and Iranians, is very much like being a criminal with a smoking gun.
    And had we stopped him when he was using them, I'd have not objected. We didn't (you might look into Chalibi betraying us to Iran and how that played into us not backing the Kurds when we said we would).

    To wait as long as we did, to let Iraqis suffer under sanctions, and then years later bring them war, well as I've said before, we simply added injury to injury.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    France and Germany opposed the war because they were the primary suppliers of military hardware to Iraq.
    Well, we sell a lot of weapons ourselves. But, you may well believe that because you want to believe that. Makes it convienent. Makes it so you don't have to question your conclusions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, we sell a lot of weapons ourselves. But, you may well believe that because you want to believe that. Makes it convienent. Makes it so you don't have to question your conclusions.
    The weaponry and goods and supplies needed to manufacture WMDs was primarily sold to Iraq by Germany (50%) and France (5%). Switzerland and Italy also provided 5% of Iraq's weaponry. The U.S. only supplied around 3.5% and that was mostly secondary electronics.

    Facts are facts.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The weaponry and goods and supplies needed to manufacture WMDs was primarily sold to Iraq by Germany (50%) and France (5%). Switzerland and Italy also provided 5% of Iraq's weaponry. The U.S. only supplied around 3.5% and that was mostly secondary electronics.

    Facts are facts.
    Which disputes nothing I said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Yes, but having chemical weapons and using them on the Kurds and Iranians, is very much like being a criminal with a smoking gun.
    Like the US backed Iraq did during the Iran-Iraq War? However, isn't this getting off topic?

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The weaponry and goods and supplies needed to manufacture WMDs was primarily sold to Iraq by Germany (50%) and France (5%). Switzerland and Italy also provided 5% of Iraq's weaponry. The U.S. only supplied around 3.5% and that was mostly secondary electronics.

    Facts are facts.
    "Facts are facts" and yet you provide no documentation.

    The fact of the matter is that Iraq had no WMDs. (Iraq's WMD: Myth and Reality) (Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq - CNN) (BBC NEWS | Middle East | Report concludes no WMD in Iraq) Bush even admitted it. (President Bush Admits Iraq Had No WMDs and 'Nothing' to Do With 9/11) (Bush, Cheney admit Iraq had no WMD, take new tack | The San Diego Union-Tribune) The CIA admitted it. (CIA). Why do you insist on trying to turn a lie into the truth?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Like the US backed Iraq did during the Iran-Iraq War? However, isn't this getting off topic?
    The U.S. had nothing to do with Iraq's gassing of the Iranians. The only thing the U.S. supplied was intelligence on Iranian troop movements.

    And yes, it has gotten WAY off topic.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    "Facts are facts" and yet you provide no documentation.

    The fact of the matter is that Iraq had no WMDs. (Iraq's WMD: Myth and Reality) (Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq - CNN) (BBC NEWS | Middle East | Report concludes no WMD in Iraq) Bush even admitted it. (President Bush Admits Iraq Had No WMDs and 'Nothing' to Do With 9/11) (Bush, Cheney admit Iraq had no WMD, take new tack | The San Diego Union-Tribune) The CIA admitted it. (CIA). Why do you insist on trying to turn a lie into the truth?
    And nothing you posted contradicted anything I claimed. Links are useless unless they pertain to the subject at hand.

    If you didn't know the basic bit of information that I posted, here's the link.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The U.S. had nothing to do with Iraq's gassing of the Iranians. The only thing the U.S. supplied was intelligence on Iranian troop movements.

    And yes, it has gotten WAY off topic.
    Sure, that is the only thing the US provided. There was absolutely no US-Iraq chemical weapon link.

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