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Thread: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    As usual, you posted a reply without bothering to even read what I wrote. It's no wonder you never address the actual content of anyone's post, but go off on some tangent that only you can comprehend.

    I could care less about snopes even though it confirms my statements. I prefer reading actual letters and papers from foreign intelligence agencies written at the time.
    What you're saying is that you don't care about the turht, you prefer to simply swollow misinformation. I got that long ago. I read your psot, and responded to it appropriately. That's more than you do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is either historical revision or you have no idea what you're talking about, though it might be both.
    Neither. It may seem that way if you looked only for information to confirm what you wanted to believe. But, I've given links, and any search would give you far more. All you have to is open the mind to see what is actually there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    As usual, you posted a reply without bothering to even read what I wrote. It's no wonder you never address the actual content of anyone's post, but go off on some tangent that only you can comprehend.

    I could care less about snopes even though it confirms my statements. I prefer reading actual letters and papers from foreign intelligence agencies written at the time.
    While reading the pdf regarding aluminum tubes (links from Boo Radley-thanks Boo for providing documentation), I found it interesting that one Iraqi scientist who insisted the tubes weren't for centrifuges was also the one who revealed hidden and banned nuclear items (page 1, third paragraph down). Okay, the tubes weren't for a nuclear program, but the banned items were!

    It was also ascertained (in the pdf) that the tubes were intended for surface-to-surface missiles. By their very nature, these missiles are not defensive. And they could very easily contain biological or chemical warheads. This is conveniently not addressed.

    Lastly, the CIA report expressed doubts that al-Queda attempted to obtain WMDs, but in no way supplies doubt that WMDs did not exist. This is an important distinction.

    And then, I would like to know how these statements, which specifically mention WMDs and specifically provide a date frame, do not consider context or time:
    "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002
    "Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002
    Last edited by EagleAye; 10-17-11 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    While reading the pdf regarding aluminum tubes (links from Boo Radley-thanks Boo for providing documentation), I found it interesting that one Iraqi scientist who insisted the tubes weren't for centrifuges was also the one who revealed hidden and banned nuclear items (page 1, third paragraph down). Okay, the tubes weren't for a nuclear program, but the banned items were!

    It was also ascertained (in the pdf) that the tubes were intended for surface-to-surface missiles. By their very nature, these missiles are not defensive. And they could very easily contain biological or chemical warheads. This is conveniently not addressed.

    Lastly, the CIA report expressed doubts that al-Queda attempted to obtain WMDs, but in no way supplies doubt that WMDs did not exist. This is an important distinction.

    And then, I would like to know how these statements, which specifically mention WMDs and specifically provide a date frame, do not consider context or time:
    You should address me I think. You'll notice Franch did not believe Bush's claims matched the evidence, which is why they did not join us. Again, there was little doubt Saddam had left over wmds, but growing and gathering is an entirely different claim.

    As for time and context, the list includes more than two statements. The purpose of the list is to show a lot of democrats supported Bush's position. Some of those comments come before Clintion's people bombed Iraq and his people declared the crisis over, for example. Some were in arguing against invasion, as Saddams threat did warrant such a drastic action. Context and time matters.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What you're saying is that you don't care about the turht, you prefer to simply swollow misinformation. I got that long ago. I read your psot, and responded to it appropriately. That's more than you do.
    Your post makes absolutely no sense and certainly doesn't relate to anything I've said, but I'm getting used to that from you.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    While reading the pdf regarding aluminum tubes (links from Boo Radley-thanks Boo for providing documentation), I found it interesting that one Iraqi scientist who insisted the tubes weren't for centrifuges was also the one who revealed hidden and banned nuclear items (page 1, third paragraph down). Okay, the tubes weren't for a nuclear program, but the banned items were!

    It was also ascertained (in the pdf) that the tubes were intended for surface-to-surface missiles. By their very nature, these missiles are not defensive. And they could very easily contain biological or chemical warheads. This is conveniently not addressed.

    Lastly, the CIA report expressed doubts that al-Queda attempted to obtain WMDs, but in no way supplies doubt that WMDs did not exist. This is an important distinction.

    And then, I would like to know how these statements, which specifically mention WMDs and specifically provide a date frame, do not consider context or time:
    Boo knows that every major country in the world thought Iraq had an ongoing weapons program, which is why multiple sanctions were imposed on them by the U.N. He prefers to be obtuse which is quite normal for him. You'll get used to it, or just ignore most of what he says like many do.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You should address me I think. You'll notice Franch did not believe Bush's claims matched the evidence, which is why they did not join us.
    France and Germany opposed the war because they were the primary suppliers of military hardware to Iraq.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You should address me I think. You'll notice Franch did not believe Bush's claims matched the evidence, which is why they did not join us. Again, there was little doubt Saddam had left over wmds, but growing and gathering is an entirely different claim.

    As for time and context, the list includes more than two statements. The purpose of the list is to show a lot of democrats supported Bush's position. Some of those comments come before Clintion's people bombed Iraq and his people declared the crisis over, for example. Some were in arguing against invasion, as Saddams threat did warrant such a drastic action. Context and time matters.
    Yes - mostly directed to you, but I wanted to point out that some folks are reading the links. And seriously, thanks for the links. It helps for a better quality debate.

    Please look again at the quotes. Notice that Jaques Chirac says, "Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." This suggests he believed in a continuing arms program. NOT a halted program. Notice also that he says this in 2002, WELL AFTER "Clintion's people bombed Iraq."

    Notice also that Al Gore's comment also happens in 2002, while Bush was gearing up to invade in 2003.

    There are many comments there and MOST of them occur between 1998 and 2003, the time during which Inspectors were denied entry, and four long years during which nuclear, biological, and chemical production facilities could easily have been dismantled or converted.

    If the police turn their backs to give a criminal the chance to throw away a smoking gun, they can hardly be surprised when they turn around and see the smoking gun is gone.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    If the police turn their backs to give a criminal the chance to throw away a smoking gun, they can hardly be surprised when they turn around and see the smoking gun is gone.
    The problem with this analogy is that you are claiming that Iran is guilty of a crime for supposedly building a nuclear weapons program. However, simply having a smoking gun does not make you a criminal.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    The problem with this analogy is that you are claiming that Iran is guilty of a crime for supposedly building a nuclear weapons program. However, simply having a smoking gun does not make you a criminal.
    Yes, but having chemical weapons and using them on the Kurds and Iranians, is very much like being a criminal with a smoking gun.

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