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Thread: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Certain? I don't know that anyone is certain of anything. But that's the point. Most are just saying we should not take government claims at face value. And we shouldn't.
    I've seen several posters claim that they are convinced that there's no way that Iran had anything to do with this plot.

    I'm simply asking for the evidence that has convinced them so. I've yet to see it and I think that stems from there being a little bit of trufer in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If he has no evidence, how cna he make any claim at all? Really?

    And too many have wagged the dog. But we do need to have evidence to support our claims. So does the president or anyone else. Real evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Easy, he heard it from Holder. Holder is the one claiming this is a plot to kill foreign diplomats and American citizens. Don't you keep up with current events ???

    Like I said, if they have evidence, we will eventually see it. The whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me though. That's why I'm wondering if the dog's tail will soon be getting a bit sore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I thought I was the only one who thought this Iran assassination plot had a "wag the dog" feel to it. But if the 2009 plot is true, who's to say someone within the Iranian gov't wouldn't try it again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yeah, the whole thing has an odd smell. Obama was briefed on the plot last June and the arrest was made last month, yet we only hear about it yesterday. Why the delay??
    Gill,

    I've been trying to wrap my mind around the public explanation given concerning this plot and things just don't add up. According to this NYTimes.com article, Manssor Arbabsiar is a naturalized U.S. citizen. But according to this article from MSNBC.com, Manssor Arbabsiar is described as an Iranian-American; gives the connotation that the man has dual-citizenship. Which is correct?

    A few things about the MSNBC article doesn't add up. For instance, Arbabsiar allegedly met his contact, a convicted Mexican drug dealer turned DEA informant, in Mexico. Why would a used car salesman from Corpus Cristi, TX with no arrest on drug related charges go to Mexico? The article says Arbabsiar left the country, but doesn't say where he went. What's more bizzare is the fact that although the DEA informant does say that Arbabsiar inquired about acquiring explosives to blow up the Saudi Embassy here in the U.S., he turns around and recommends to Arbabsiar upon his return to the U.S. that HE, not Arbabsiar, could assassinate the Saudi Ambassador for $1.5 million with the help of others (four men was the number of assistance the informant said he would need)? Why wouldn't the informant just get the C-4 explosives Arbabsiar asked for instead of upping the anti?

    And then you have this alleged Mexican cartle/Quds Force/Venezuela drug smuggling connection that doesn't make sense because nowhere in either article is there confirmation of Arbabsiar's involvement with drugs, drugs gangs, drug dealers - nothing! So, again, why is a used car salesman from Texas doing down in Mexico? And even if there's more to the relationship between Arbabsiar and this DEA informant, why have the money to carry out the assassination plot wired to a bank in New York? I could understand if both Arbabsiar and the DEA informant met up in NY after the informant received the money or the DEA agent going himself, but having two money transfers of $100,000 each wired to NY when Arbabsiar resided in TX makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. On top of that as stated earlier, it wasn't even Arbabsiar who was to carry out the assassination attempt. It was the DEA informant which makes this plot stranger still.

    This plot just doesn't add up. Can you say, "Wag the Dog"?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-14-11 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Gill,

    I've been trying to wrap my mind around the public explanation given concerning this plot and things just don't add up. According to this NYTimes.com article, Manssor Arbabsiar is a naturalized U.S. citizen. But according to this article from MSNBC.com, Manssor Arbabsiar is described as an Iranian-American; gives the connotation that the man has dual-citizenship. Which is correct?

    A few things about the MSNBC article doesn't add up. For instance, Arbabsiar allegedly met his contact, a convicted Mexican drug dealer turned DEA informant, in Mexico. Why would a used car salesman from Corpus Cristi, TX with no arrest on drug related charges go to Mexico? The article says Arbabsiar left the country, but doesn't say where he went. What's more bizzare is the fact that although the DEA informant does say that Arbabsiar inquired about acquiring explosives to blow up the Saudi Embassy here in the U.S., he turns around and recommends to Arbabsiar upon his return to the U.S. that HE, not Arbabsiar, could assassinate the Saudi Ambassador for $1.5 million with the help of others (four men was the number of assistance the informant said he would need)? Why wouldn't the informant just get the C-4 explosives Arbabsiar asked for instead of up-ing the antie?

    And then you have this alleged Mexican cartle/Quds Force/Venezuela drug smuggling connection that doesn't make sense because nowhere in either article is there confirmation of Arbabsiar's involvement with drugs, drugs gangs, drug dealers - nothing! So, again, why is a used car salesman from Texas doing down in Mexico? And even if there's more to the relationship between Arbabsiar and this DEA informant, why have the money to carry out the assassination plot wired to a bank in New York? I could understand if both Arbabsiar and the DEA informant or even a DEA agent met up in NY after the informant received the money, but having two deposits of $100,000 each wired to NY when Arbabsiar resided in TX makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. On top of that, it wasn't even Arbabsiar who was to carry out the plot. It was the DEA informant which makes this plot stranger still.

    This plot just doesn't add up. Can you say, "Wag the Dog"?
    Why does any of that, "not add up"? You're taking circumstantial evidence and trying to twist it into something substantial.

    To answer your question as to why a used car salesman from Corpus Christi did any of that: it was because he was hatching a plot to assinate the Saudi and Israeli ambassadors, in Washington D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why does any of that, "not add up"? You're taking circumstantial evidence and trying to twist it into something substantial.

    To answer your question as to why a used car salesman from Corpus Christi did any of that: it was because he was hatching a plot to assinate the Saudi and Israeli ambassadors, in Washington D.C.
    No...the bomb plot turned into an assassination attempt. Still, the person who was to carry out the plot wasn't the Iranian-American. It was the DEA informant. Does that make any sense to you?

    It would make sense IF Arbabsair had been the one who changed plans, but it was the informant who suggested assassinating the Saudi Ambassador, not Arbabsiar himself. That's what puzzles me about this entire story.

    Now, if the storyline had expanded on how the original bombing plot was deemed too risky and Arbabsiar and the DEA informant were throwing around ideas and suddenly at some point during the conversation the informant said, "I know, how about assassinating the Saudi Ambassador instead," I could understand that.

    BTW, when did the Israeli Ambassador come into the mix?

    The Justice Dept still has lots of 'xplaining to do because according to the NYTimes article, other nations are starting to get involved - Britain, France, the Saudis themselves (naturally). I am curious, however, why Venezuela's keeping mum about it. They haven't said a thing yet and their drug cartle's been placed in the middle of this alleged plot.

    (Sidenote: The irony here is I'm the one questioning events associated with the Obama Administration and you, normally an anti-Obama pundit, are the one defending the Administration's storyline. How twisted is that? )
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-14-11 at 02:00 PM.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No matter who makes the claim, there is no reason to accept the claim without actual evidence. It is as fishy as we had under Bush. We should always question no matter who makes the claim. Evidence should always be the critieria, and we should not be too willing to believe.
    Who said anything about accepting a claim. You merely asked where he got any evidence from, not if it was legitimate.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Gill,

    I've been trying to wrap my mind around the public explanation given concerning this plot and things just don't add up. According to this NYTimes.com article, Manssor Arbabsiar is a naturalized U.S. citizen. But according to this article from MSNBC.com, Manssor Arbabsiar is described as an Iranian-American; gives the connotation that the man has dual-citizenship. Which is correct?

    A few things about the MSNBC article doesn't add up. For instance, Arbabsiar allegedly met his contact, a convicted Mexican drug dealer turned DEA informant, in Mexico. Why would a used car salesman from Corpus Cristi, TX with no arrest on drug related charges go to Mexico? The article says Arbabsiar left the country, but doesn't say where he went. What's more bizzare is the fact that although the DEA informant does say that Arbabsiar inquired about acquiring explosives to blow up the Saudi Embassy here in the U.S., he turns around and recommends to Arbabsiar upon his return to the U.S. that HE, not Arbabsiar, could assassinate the Saudi Ambassador for $1.5 million with the help of others (four men was the number of assistance the informant said he would need)? Why wouldn't the informant just get the C-4 explosives Arbabsiar asked for instead of upping the anti?

    And then you have this alleged Mexican cartle/Quds Force/Venezuela drug smuggling connection that doesn't make sense because nowhere in either article is there confirmation of Arbabsiar's involvement with drugs, drugs gangs, drug dealers - nothing! So, again, why is a used car salesman from Texas doing down in Mexico? And even if there's more to the relationship between Arbabsiar and this DEA informant, why have the money to carry out the assassination plot wired to a bank in New York? I could understand if both Arbabsiar and the DEA informant met up in NY after the informant received the money or the DEA agent going himself, but having two money transfers of $100,000 each wired to NY when Arbabsiar resided in TX makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. On top of that as stated earlier, it wasn't even Arbabsiar who was to carry out the assassination attempt. It was the DEA informant which makes this plot stranger still.

    This plot just doesn't add up. Can you say, "Wag the Dog"?
    Yes, the whole thing is very odd, at least from we've been told so far. It appears that Arbabsiar met the Mexican informant through the guys aunt who lives in Corpus Christi. What are the odds for that???

    I hate conspiracy theories normally, but I can't help but wonder if the Iranian government set up this dolt in a plot to embarrass the U.S. government and Obama.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Who said anything about accepting a claim. You merely asked where he got any evidence from, not if it was legitimate.
    Actually, that's not what I asked. I asked if he had evidence to support HIS claim. A claim that is unsupported is largely not considered evidence. To call an supported claim evidence is to accept the claim.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually, that's not what I asked. I asked if he had evidence to support HIS claim. A claim that is unsupported is largely not considered evidence. To call an supported claim evidence is to accept the claim.
    And he claimed that there was evidence. Whether you choose to believe it is your right, but that does not mean it's not evidence.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    And he claimed that there was evidence. Whether you choose to believe it is your right, but that does not mean it's not evidence.
    Again, a claim is not evidence. A public offical saying something is so is not sufficient evidence. That's why I pointed to Powell. Too many put too much stock in someone saying something. We need to demand more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iran accused over Washington terror plot

    Dawud Salahuddin, an American fugitive who in 1980 was the last and only US citizen known to have killed on behalf of Iran's revolutionary regime, on US soil, says the plot borders on the unbelievable.
    Both strategically and operationally, in terms of Iran's worldview and its way of doing business, the information made public so far about the assassination plot does not add up, says Mr. Salahuddin, a black American convert to Islam, who was born David Theodore Belfield.

    "For all the noise that comes out of this country, the Iranians know full well they are no military match for the Americans; they know that better than they know their names," says Salahuddin, who spoke to the Monitor by telephone from his home west of Tehran. "So the notion that [the Iranians] are going to bring that down on them, that just makes no sense at all."

    "Why would the Iranians blow up embassies in Washington DC? The last thing the Iranians want is a war with the Americans," he adds. "This regime: They're interested in staying in power."
    Former Iran assassin says alleged plot 'makes no sense' - Yahoo! News
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