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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

TurtleDude said:
the most common type of "higher education" is a masters in education which most NEA teachers have. teachers tend to be the bottom of the barrel in terms of majors at big state universities. the smartest kids go on to medical school, MBAs JDs and masters in real subjects.


academics tend to vote dem because MOST academics are paid with tax dollars. Many lawyers vote dem because dems tend to create an environment that allows attorneys more fees-be it litigation or dealing with dem imposed regulations

the groups with the lowest performances on IQ tests tend to vote dem
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So what? So do the most educated. Conservatives are in the middle.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
So what? So do the most educated. Conservatives are in the middle.
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I don't consider people with M Eds all that educated. and when you strip away those sucking in the public teat, it explains the voting patterns

one thing that is for sure, those who are most ambitious tend to vote GOP
 
Conservative said:
Good economic policy and leadership created an environment to lower interest rates whereas poor leadership and economic policy today has prolonged the problem. People today are suffering because we have a President who isn't leading but instead is dividing. This shows once again that you don't have a clue
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Here you demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about. Interest rates were raised fight inflation. Once inflation was under control, interest rates dropped. None of that had anything to do with Reagan or his policies.
 
Conservative said:
You give him the benefit of doubt because he is a liberal and has a D after his name. Results don't matter to liberals when those results promote massive growth in a big central govt. and a huge entitlement state.
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:roll: Moans a 4 time Bush voter. :roll:

Conservative said:
Yes, I am older than you and hope I am around when you finally realize that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. What has been pointed out accurately is that Obama took office at the end of a recession and the results today should be much better than they are. Poor leadership, poor economic policy, and promotion of class warfare may make you feel good but the results are as expected.
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Again, you have no idea how old I am -- all you do by pretending you do know is to make a fool of yourself.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't consider people with M Eds all that educated. and when you strip away those sucking in the public teat, it explains the voting patterns

one thing that is for sure, those who are most ambitious tend to vote GOP
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Hmm my mother who has three master's one of them being in education might disagree with you.
 
winston53660 said:
Hmm my mother who has three master's one of them being in education might disagree with you.
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I couldn't care less-I am speaking about the majority of those teaching at public schools.They tended to be people at the bottom of the barrel in college and I would be happy to compare my Ivy doctorate and masters with your mother's degrees.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't consider people with M Eds all that educated. and when you strip away those sucking in the public teat, it explains the voting patterns
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WTF?? People who graduate from higher education aren't "all that educated??"


MSN-Emoticon-laughing-127.gif




That's like saying you consider the moon to be green.
 
Conservative said:
And what authority does Paul Volcker have. Obama also hired Simpson/Bowles and then didn't do a thing they proposed. What good is hiring someone if you aren't going to listen to them?
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aheeemmmm:

The commission is:


  • Co-chaired by former White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles and former Senator Alan Simpson (R-WY)
  • Comprised of 18 appointed members
    • 12 appointed by Congress (3 each per party per chamber) – appointees must be sitting members of Congress
    • 6 appointed by the President (No more than 4 may be from the same party)
  • Expected to release initial recommendations to Congress no later than December 1, 2010
  • 14 of 18 commission members must agree on budget recommendations before they can be submitted
The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform failed to reach the 14 votes necessary to move its deficit-reduction proposal to Congress, with a final tally of 11 member votes in support and 7 votes against. While the proposal's defeat was anticipated given deep concerns over recommended tax increases and spending cuts, the commission's efforts have highlighted the importance of finding solutions to address the the nation's growing deficits.

Independent Sector | Fiscal Deficit Commission
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
WTF?? People who graduate from higher education aren't "all that educated??"


MSN-Emoticon-laughing-127.gif





That's like saying you consider the moon to be green.
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not compared to those who majored in say engineering or have masters in real subjects

Having a doctorate in law and a masters in labor law and industrial labor relations I find M Eds rather underwhelming

Its all a question of perspective

Your position that a M Ed is a tremendous bit of education might well be true from your perspective.
 
TurtleDude said:
I couldn't care less-I am speaking about the majority of those teaching at public schools.They tended to be people at the bottom of the barrel in college and I would be happy to compare my Ivy doctorate and masters with your mother's degrees.
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Well since your posts never reflect education of any advanced level go for it!

Oh and my dad has a Master's
my brother has two
and my other brother has his Phd
oh and I have a master's too.
 
winston53660 said:
Well since your posts never reflect education of any advanced level go for it!

Oh and my dad has a Master's
my brother has two
and my other brother has his Phd
oh and I have a master's too.
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education is supposed to make someone less dependent on government and less likely to impose costs on other people

I guess in your case that didn't happen
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Here's the part you don't get ... in the early 80's when the rates went sky high, that affected peoples' ability to afford taking out a mortgage on the house. It didn't bankrupt them, they just had to wait until the rates came down to make the mortgage more affordable. If someone bought a house at $100,000 with a 17.5% rate, it's because they could afford it. Which also highlight s why Reagan had a better recovery than Obama. In the early e80's, the people who bought houses at 17.% rates were able to refinance their mortgage during the recovery period which provided them extra spending money which helped fuel the recovery.

Now compare that with the millions of people who did just the opposite in the mid-2000's ... they took out ARMs and deferred interest loans for extremely low interest rates and then couldn't afford to keep up with their mortgage when the fixed rate expired and the interest rates rose. They lost all their money and had nothing to help fuel a recovery. That's a big part of the problem for why the recovery has been so sluggish.

The big difference that you're incapable of understanding is back then, there was room to produce a recovery. That's a luxury which doesn't exist now.

Back then, we were able to reign in inflation, thereby promoting growth; now, inflation is already low.

Back then, we were able to lower interest rates to spark investments, thereby promoting growth; now, the interest rates are already low.

Back then, income taxes were as high as 70%, plenty of room to reduce them to put more money into the economy; now, income taxes are already near historic lows.

Back then, national debt was not an issue, there was plenty of room to borrow to invest more money into the economy; now, the national debt is bursting at the seams and there's little more we can tap into.

All the things that could be done to generate a recovery were at Reagan's disposal back then and none of them are available now. And Obama isn't responsible for any of them except the debt, which Republican presidents contributed some 80% of prior to Obama becoming president.
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That's a great rundown, but you must also realize Reagan tripled the debt to fight the Cold War, so he was using Keynesian economics.
 
pbrauer said:
That's a great rundown, but you must also realize Reagan tripled the debt to fight the Cold War, so he was using Keynesian economics.
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all that pork dems loaded up his demands for more defense spending had nothing to do with that did it
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Here you demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about. Interest rates were raised fight inflation. Once inflation was under control, interest rates dropped. None of that had anything to do with Reagan or his policies.
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Au contraire. You are correct that interest rates were deliberately kept high so as to shrink the money supply, and get inflation under control. There was no other way to succeed. There were plenty of ways to continue to fail though. It also meant a continued stifling of the broken economy, and a concurrent rise in unemployment. This is why unemployment peaked in 1982.

To say it had nothing to do with Reagan is just plain false though. Reagan had to sell the country on a couple years of tough love in order to fix things. And it was tough. In fact, he had to go into the '82 midterms with lousy numbers, exactly as he said they would be though. What he did not do was bring on massive new entiltement programs, and throw money at everything (Obamacare and Stimulus). And what was his message in lieu of passing out free stuff ? It was "Stay the Course". As he was such a phenomenal leader, who was able to make the tough decisions, and stick with them, he kicked ass. In 1983 everything started to turn around, exactly as he said it would. In '84 he beat a credible Walter Mondale in one of the biggest electoral romps in history.

Contrast that to Obama. Who hasn't made a tough decision in his life. Whose "plan" has failed to deliver everywhere. Massive and sustained debt. Unemployment stuck over 9% with phoney numbers, over 12 without. 0-2 for "Recovery Summers". Holder. Solyndra. Gitmo. Etc.

What Reagan had to do was lead and maintain the political will of the country to take the tough medicine. It had everything to do with his leadership at that time.
 
pbrauer said:
That's a great rundown, but you must also realize Reagan tripled the debt to fight the Cold War, so he was using Keynesian economics.
Click to expand...

I can up my credit card balance from $1 to $3 too, and I "tripled my debt".

Reagan kept debt manageable, with deficits around 5% of GDP, while he fixed massive problems. He fixed the country, and the military. And American pride. He paved the way for the enormously successful '90's.

Obama has us headed to 7.5% deficits. And he hasn't fixed a friggin thing.
 
TurtleDude said:
I couldn't care less-I am speaking about the majority of those teaching at public schools.They tended to be people at the bottom of the barrel in college and I would be happy to compare my Ivy doctorate and masters with your mother's degrees.
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Well here's a list of the 10 most educated states:

Massachusetts
Maryland
Colorado
Connecticut
Vermont
New Hampshire
Virgina
Minnesota
Washington
New Jersey

America's smartest states - Massachusetts (1) - Small Business

Here's a list of the 10 smartest states:

Vermont
Wisconsin
Massachusetts
Iowa
Connecticut
Montana
New Jersey
Nebraska
Minnesota
Virgina

... and the 10 dumbest states:

Nevada
Arizona
California
Hawaii
Alaska
Georgia
Mississippi
Alabama
Louisiana
New Mexico

The Dumbest States in America | Lifestyle | Mainstreet

Now whine away ... :lamo
 
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Sheik Yerbuti said:
Well here's a list of the 10 most educated states:

Massachusetts
Maryland
Colorado
Connecticut
Vermont
New Hampshire
Virgina
Minnesota
Washington
New Jersey

America's smartest states - Massachusetts (1) - Small Business

Here's a list of the 10 smartest states:

Vermont
Wisconsin
Massachusetts
Iowa
Connecticut
Montana
New Jersey
Nebraska
Minnesota
Virgina

... and the 10 dumbest states:

Nevada
Arizona
California
Hawaii
Alaska
Georgia
Mississippi
Alabama
Louisiana
New Mexico

The Dumbest States in America | Lifestyle | Mainstreet

Now whine away ... :lamo
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what does that prove? a group that voted 95% for Obama is the group that does the worst on IQ tests
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Au contraire. You are correct that interest rates were deliberately kept high so as to shrink the money supply, and get inflation under control. There was no other way to succeed. There were plenty of ways to continue to fail though. It also meant a continued stifling of the broken economy, and a concurrent rise in unemployment. This is why unemployment peaked in 1982.

To say it had nothing to do with Reagan is just plain false though. Reagan had to sell the country on a couple years of tough love in order to fix things. And it was tough. In fact, he had to go into the '82 midterms with lousy numbers, exactly as he said they would be though. What he did not do was bring on massive new entiltement programs, and throw money at everything (Obamacare and Stimulus). And what was his message in lieu of passing out free stuff ? It was "Stay the Course". As he was such a phenomenal leader, who was able to make the tough decisions, and stick with them, he kicked ass. In 1983 everything started to turn around, exactly as he said it would. In '84 he beat a credible Walter Mondale in one of the biggest electoral romps in history.

Contrast that to Obama. Who hasn't made a tough decision in his life. Whose "plan" has failed to deliver everywhere. Massive and sustained debt. Unemployment stuck over 9% with phoney numbers, over 12 without. 0-2 for "Recovery Summers". Holder. Solyndra. Gitmo. Etc.

What Reagan had to do was lead and maintain the political will of the country to take the tough medicine. It had everything to do with his leadership at that time.
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Guess none of that made the liberal textbooks that have brainwashed a lot of people. This country today is experiencing a failure of leadership by somenoe whose resume showed he was in ovrer his head when he ran for the job but his flowery rhetoric won the election. He did so without offering specifics and convinced a majority that his hope and change message was the same as theirs. Today's results speak for themselves and you nailed it. I am amazed that his JAR is still at 40% but then again after seeing some of the people here guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 
TurtleDude said:
not compared to those who majored in say engineering or have masters in real subjects

Having a doctorate in law and a masters in labor law and industrial labor relations I find M Eds rather underwhelming

Its all a question of perspective

Your position that a M Ed is a tremendous bit of education might well be true from your perspective.
Click to expand...
Strawman much?

Umm, mind giving the post number where I said having a Masters degree in Education is a "tremendous bit of education?" Wait! I'll save you the trouble -- I never did. Sad that you have to toss your argument in the toilet like that by misrepresenting what I said, isn't it?
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Contrast that to Obama. Who hasn't made a tough decision in his life. Whose "plan" has failed to deliver everywhere. Massive and sustained debt. Unemployment stuck over 9% with phoney numbers, over 12 without. 0-2 for "Recovery Summers". Holder. Solyndra. Gitmo. Etc.
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Who killed the economy before Obama even took office?

Private sector jobs gains/losses

YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec
2008 Gain/
Loss		4-128-87-186-240-217-265-317-434-491-787-636
2009 Gain/
Loss		-841-721-787-773-326-438-287-215-213-250-34-102
2010 Gain/
Loss		-42-21144229486593110109143128167
2011 Gain/
Loss		94261219241997515617
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Au contraire. You are correct that interest rates were deliberately kept high so as to shrink the money supply, and get inflation under control. There was no other way to succeed. There were plenty of ways to continue to fail though. It also meant a continued stifling of the broken economy, and a concurrent rise in unemployment. This is why unemployment peaked in 1982.

To say it had nothing to do with Reagan is just plain false though. Reagan had to sell the country on a couple years of tough love in order to fix things. And it was tough. In fact, he had to go into the '82 midterms with lousy numbers, exactly as he said they would be though. What he did not do was bring on massive new entiltement programs, and throw money at everything (Obamacare and Stimulus). And what was his message in lieu of passing out free stuff ? It was "Stay the Course". As he was such a phenomenal leader, who was able to make the tough decisions, and stick with them, he kicked ass. In 1983 everything started to turn around, exactly as he said it would. In '84 he beat a credible Walter Mondale in one of the biggest electoral romps in history.
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So we agree that it was Volker's policies, and not Reagan's, who fixed the economy. And according to you, Reagan's role was to sell it to the nation (as though the nation had a choice but to do what the FED wanted to do) But then one can only conclude that Reagan failed at his one task at selling it to the nation because the nation ranked his job approval at its low at just 35%. Seems he didn't sell it well?

Eighty Deuce said:
Contrast that to Obama. Who hasn't made a tough decision in his life. Whose "plan" has failed to deliver everywhere. Massive and sustained debt. Unemployment stuck over 9% with phoney numbers, over 12 without. 0-2 for "Recovery Summers". Holder. Solyndra. Gitmo. Etc.

What Reagan had to do was lead and maintain the political will of the country to take the tough medicine. It had everything to do with his leadership at that time.
Click to expand...
Ahh, you want to list failures, ok, I can play that too ... Iran Contra, S&L collapse, Star Wars, tripling the debt, trickle down economics, etc.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
I can up my credit card balance from $1 to $3 too, and I "tripled my debt".
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When you never had a dolloar in your account to begin with, $3 is a lot.

Eighty Deuce said:
Reagan kept debt manageable, with deficits around 5% of GDP, while he fixed massive problems. He fixed the country, and the military. And American pride. He paved the way for the enormously successful '90's.
Click to expand...
Much easier to do when you're not inheriting a budget with an expected $1.2 trillion shortfall amid an economy with falling GDP in a recession second only to the Great Depression.

Eighty Deuce said:
Obama has us headed to 7.5% deficits. And he hasn't fixed a friggin thing.
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Again, Reagan's economy had room to work with. When you start with interest rates into double digits, you can improve the economy by lowering rates. Obama doesn't have that option. When you start with inflation into double digits, you can improve the economy by bringing it down. Obama doesn't have that option.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
So we agree that it was Volker's policies, and not Reagan's, who fixed the economy. And according to you, Reagan's role was to sell it to the nation (as though the nation had a choice but to do what the FED wanted to do) But then one can only conclude that Reagan failed at his one task at selling it to the nation because the nation ranked his job approval at its low at just 35%. Seems he didn't sell it well?

Ahh, you want to list failures, ok, I can play that too ... Iran Contra, S&L collapse, Star Wars, tripling the debt, trickle down economics, etc.
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Sheik. Here you are trying to tell us about Reagan success or fail. Let me show you, in one picture, how we measured it then, in 1984 :)

electoral-1984-s.jpg

Reagan was really screwing up !!
 
And then he handed off to his VP in '88

electoral-1988-s.jpg
 
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