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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

  1. #421
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Au contraire. You are correct that interest rates were deliberately kept high so as to shrink the money supply, and get inflation under control. There was no other way to succeed. There were plenty of ways to continue to fail though. It also meant a continued stifling of the broken economy, and a concurrent rise in unemployment. This is why unemployment peaked in 1982.

    To say it had nothing to do with Reagan is just plain false though. Reagan had to sell the country on a couple years of tough love in order to fix things. And it was tough. In fact, he had to go into the '82 midterms with lousy numbers, exactly as he said they would be though. What he did not do was bring on massive new entiltement programs, and throw money at everything (Obamacare and Stimulus). And what was his message in lieu of passing out free stuff ? It was "Stay the Course". As he was such a phenomenal leader, who was able to make the tough decisions, and stick with them, he kicked ass. In 1983 everything started to turn around, exactly as he said it would. In '84 he beat a credible Walter Mondale in one of the biggest electoral romps in history.
    So we agree that it was Volker's policies, and not Reagan's, who fixed the economy. And according to you, Reagan's role was to sell it to the nation (as though the nation had a choice but to do what the FED wanted to do) But then one can only conclude that Reagan failed at his one task at selling it to the nation because the nation ranked his job approval at its low at just 35%. Seems he didn't sell it well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Contrast that to Obama. Who hasn't made a tough decision in his life. Whose "plan" has failed to deliver everywhere. Massive and sustained debt. Unemployment stuck over 9% with phoney numbers, over 12 without. 0-2 for "Recovery Summers". Holder. Solyndra. Gitmo. Etc.

    What Reagan had to do was lead and maintain the political will of the country to take the tough medicine. It had everything to do with his leadership at that time.
    Ahh, you want to list failures, ok, I can play that too ... Iran Contra, S&L collapse, Star Wars, tripling the debt, trickle down economics, etc.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    I can up my credit card balance from $1 to $3 too, and I "tripled my debt".
    When you never had a dolloar in your account to begin with, $3 is a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Reagan kept debt manageable, with deficits around 5% of GDP, while he fixed massive problems. He fixed the country, and the military. And American pride. He paved the way for the enormously successful '90's.
    Much easier to do when you're not inheriting a budget with an expected $1.2 trillion shortfall amid an economy with falling GDP in a recession second only to the Great Depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Obama has us headed to 7.5% deficits. And he hasn't fixed a friggin thing.
    Again, Reagan's economy had room to work with. When you start with interest rates into double digits, you can improve the economy by lowering rates. Obama doesn't have that option. When you start with inflation into double digits, you can improve the economy by bringing it down. Obama doesn't have that option.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Now whine away ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what does that prove? a group that voted 95% for Obama is the group that does the worst on IQ tests
    Well if nothing else, you take orders well.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    So we agree that it was Volker's policies, and not Reagan's, who fixed the economy. And according to you, Reagan's role was to sell it to the nation (as though the nation had a choice but to do what the FED wanted to do) But then one can only conclude that Reagan failed at his one task at selling it to the nation because the nation ranked his job approval at its low at just 35%. Seems he didn't sell it well?

    Ahh, you want to list failures, ok, I can play that too ... Iran Contra, S&L collapse, Star Wars, tripling the debt, trickle down economics, etc.
    Sheik. Here you are trying to tell us about Reagan success or fail. Let me show you, in one picture, how we measured it then, in 1984

    electoral-1984-s.jpg

    Reagan was really screwing up !!

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    And then he handed off to his VP in '88

    electoral-1988-s.jpg

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Well if nothing else, you take orders well.
    Its fun seeing someone who supports the collectivist mentality calling someone else an "order taker"



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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Who killed the economy before Obama even took office?

    Private sector jobs gains/losses

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2008 Gain/
    Loss
    4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
    2009 Gain/
    Loss
    -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
    2010 Gain/
    Loss
    -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
    2011 Gain/
    Loss
    94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17
    WE nave a net job loss since Obama took office so tell the rest of the story. Obama has a very low approval rating for a reason and it wasn't because he has done his job.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Who killed the economy before Obama even took office?

    Private sector jobs gains/losses

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2008 Gain/
    Loss
    4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
    2009 Gain/
    Loss
    -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
    2010 Gain/
    Loss
    -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
    2011 Gain/
    Loss
    94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17
    In case you forgot, the calculations for counting the unemployed changed in 1994 as the discouraged workers were dropped from the roles and the percentages. The real number should be the number employed so here they are for Reagan, GW Bush and Obama during their first term

    Let's see if you can figure out why Obama's approval ratings are at record lows

    Employment by month

    Reagan

    Jan 1981 99.9 million
    Sept 1983 101.6 Million

    Net +1.7 million

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    1980 99879 99995 99713 99233 98945 98682 98796 98824 99077 99317 99545 99634
    1981 99955 100191 100571 101056 101048 100298 100693 100689 100064 100378 100207 99645
    1982 99692 99762 99672 99576 100116 99543 99493 99633 99504 99215 99112 99032
    1983 99161 99089 99179 99560 99642 100633 101208 101608 102016 102039 102729 102996
    1984 103201 103824 103967 104336 105193 105591 105435 105163 105490 105638 105972 106223

    GW Bush

    January 2001 137.8
    Sept 2003 137.6

    Net -.2 million

    2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047
    2002 135701 136438 136177 136126 136539 136415 136413 136705 137302 137008 136521 136426
    2003 137417 137482 137434 137633 137544 137790 137474 137549 137609 137984 138424 138411
    2004 138472 138542 138453 138680 138852 139174 139556 139573 139487 139732 140231 140125

    Obama

    January 2009 142.2 Million
    Sept 2011 139.6 Million

    Net -2.6 million

    2009 142221 141687 140854 140902 140438 140038 139817 139433 138768 138242 138381 137792
    2010 138333 138641 138905 139455 139420 139119 138960 139250 139391 139061 138888 139206
    2011 139323 139573 139864 139674 139779 139334 139296 139627

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    all that pork dems loaded up his demands for more defense spending had nothing to do with that did it
    It is of no secret that the Reagan administration implemented an economic policy referred to as military keynesianism. With all the education you feel the need to brag about on a message board; this should have been obvious.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Wow, has this thread gone silent! Posting actual data seems to do that with Obama supporters so why stop now. The following comes from BLS and shows employment at the beginning and end of each term and my previous post showed employment during the same period of time for each President's term, Reagan, GW Bush, and Obama. Now here are the employment numbers for the entire term for Reagan and GW Bush along wiith the Obama performance for over 2 1/2 years. Leadership plays a role here and shows just how poor Obama's leadership skills are

    Employment numbers

    Reagan January 1981-January 1989 99.9 116.7
    GW Bush January 2001-January 2009 137.8 142.2
    Obama January 2009-Sept 2011 142.4 139.6

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