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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So you would advise people to throw good money after bad. That just makes so much business sense.

    Again I would rather pay 17 % and be above water vs paying 6 % and being below water.
    was it bad money when you bought the house in the first place? Again, what assurance do you have that your 17.5% mortgage is for a house above water. With interest rates that high housing prices fell quite dramatically as no one could afford to buy a house. Keep trying to weasel out of this one

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I have not read the entire thread, but I do not believe you can make a valid comparison of the two based on such little info. Let me explain.

    I bought my first house while Carter was President. And my second house, with interest rates on the second house at about 12%. What made such possible to bear then was that inflation was still high enough that the houses were appreciating at a rate consistent with my interest rates. So at least I could anticipate selling down the road, having renegotiated interest rates as they moved with inflation, and get my money back as I went through the next sale-purchase cycle. Yes, it was a smaller house for the money. But without the prospect of losing more when I sold.

    Being underwater poses a whole different scenario. If I have no plan to sell-move anytime soon, then it is not necessarily a dire situation. But if I must move, I am faced with carrying a huge loss forward.

    Both scenarios are bad, high interest rates and being underwater. But in different ways, which will vary based on variable factors.
    What he is trying to do is paint a picture that economic conditions were worse when Reagan took over vs when Obama took over. The data just doesn't support his position from an economic stand point.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    was it bad money when you bought the house in the first place? Again, what assurance do you have that your 17.5% mortgage is for a house above water. With interest rates that high housing prices fell quite dramatically as no one could afford to buy a house. Keep trying to weasel out of this one
    Uhmm we went through this yesterday and your claims do not match the data esp when compared to today.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're the not the authority on deciding what a recession is, the NBER is and they're laughing at you too. You're just some Conservative goof trying to make the economy appear worse when Reagan was president just so you can make Obama look worse. Unforunately for you, there was no recession when Reagan became president. And nothing you say will ever change that fact.

    When Reagan became president, GDP was 7.6%, interest rates were falling, inflation was falling, unemployment was flat.



    I never said anything other than that (except that the recession started in July, not June) , so who knows what you're talking about now?
    Reagan inherited a mess. As Recessions go, with all the added mess (interest rates and inflation), it was earlier in the cycle then what Obama got, which was near rock bottom when Obama got it.

    For you to claim that things were somehow OK when Reagan took office is incredibly uninformed. The misery index was at a modern day high. I am not here to blame Carter, as the mess Reagan got was the cumulative effect of all the messed-up 70's.

    You can debate all you want that Obama inherited worse, or Reagan inherited worse. Both were bad. The difference is in how Reagan went to solving his mess, which worked, vs. Obama being inept beyond belief.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Take a leadership class in school and then get back to me if you believe Obama has any leadership skills at all.
    Haha, coming from the king of leadership I bet. Give me 3 reasons why you think Obama is a bad leader.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Here's the part you don't get ... in the early 80's when the rates went sky high, that affected peoples' ability to afford taking out a mortgage on the house. It didn't bankrupt them, they just had to wait until the rates came down to make the mortgage more affordable. If someone bought a house at $100,000 with a 17.5% rate, it's because they could afford it. Which also highlight s why Reagan had a better recovery than Obama. In the early e80's, the people who bought houses at 17.% rates were able to refinance their mortgage during the recovery period which provided them extra spending money which helped fuel the recovery.

    Now compare that with the millions of people who did just the opposite in the mid-2000's ... they took out ARMs and deferred interest loans for extremely low interest rates and then couldn't afford to keep up with their mortgage when the fixed rate expired and the interest rates rose. They lost all their money and had nothing to help fuel a recovery. That's a big part of the problem for why the recovery has been so sluggish.

    The big difference that you're incapable of understanding is back then, there was room to produce a recovery. That's a situation which doesn't exist now.

    Back then, we were able to reign in inflation, thereby promoting growth; now, inflation is already low.

    Back then, we were able to lower interest rates to spark investments, thereby promoting growth; now, the interest rates are already low.

    Back then, income taxes were as high as 70%, plenty of room to reduce them to put more money into the economy; now, income taxes are already near historic lows.

    Back then, national debt was not an issue, there was plenty of room to borrow to invest more money into the economy; now, the national debt is bursting at the seams and there's little more we can tap into.

    All the things that could be done to generate a recovery were at Reagan's disposal back then and none of them are available now. And Obama isn't responsible for any of them except the debt, which Republican presidents contributed some 80% of prior to Obama becoming president.
    Your missing the point as usual, high interest rates affected more than just homes and their prices. I don't recall ARMS being available in the 80's but I do know that today people who bought ARMS knew that those interest rates would reset or if they didn't they had no business buying a home. Sounds like a personal responsibility issue to me

    Please don't tell me that I am incapable of understanding what went on during a period of time when you were either a kid or wasn't born.

    You keep giving Obama the benefit of doubt in the face of data and results that are disastrous but because you are a liberal and an ideologue thus results don't matter.

    It is obvious to me that you have no clue about leadership and how to influence a private sector economy. Hopefully that will come to you with age and experience. Attitude plays a major role in human behavior and Reagan knew how to motivate people. His tax cuts helped more than you will ever admit. Compare Reagan's speechs to Obama's. Notice any difference?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Haha, coming from the king of leadership I bet. Give me 3 reasons why you think Obama is a bad leader.
    One, he delegates responsibility
    Two his eqo is too large in that he cannot take constructive criticism
    Three he doesn't get consensus and does what he wants, not what is right.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Reagan inherited a mess. As Recessions go, with all the added mess (interest rates and inflation), it was earlier in the cycle then what Obama got, which was near rock bottom when Obama got it.

    For you to claim that things were somehow OK when Reagan took office is incredibly uninformed. The misery index was at a modern day high. I am not here to blame Carter, as the mess Reagan got was the cumulative effect of all the messed-up 70's.

    You can debate all you want that Obama inherited worse, or Reagan inherited worse. Both were bad. The difference is in how Reagan went to solving his mess, which worked, vs. Obama being inept beyond belief.
    Outstanding post, stated better than anything I could ever post. Great job

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    What he is trying to do is paint a picture that economic conditions were worse when Reagan took over vs when Obama took over. The data just doesn't support his position from an economic stand point.
    I addressed this in my above post. I have had fun debating the same angle before, but only for the fun of debate.

    A study of the first terms of both Presidents is a startling contrast in leadership, and success. Reagan succeeded. His plan worked. He had great rapport with many Democrat leaders. He was a political genius, and was up to the job. For Chrissakes, at this first midterms in '82, unemployment was 10.8%, and he lost all of 28 House seats, and no net Senate. And '84 was .... well, Obama will not do in '12 what Reagan did in '84.

    Yes, Obama inherited a massive and unique mess. I cannot say it was better or worse. It was real bad.

    But Obama has had the wrong solutions. And no leadership. He is not the guy we need moving forward.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires (Continued)

    I will argue the first two because anyone can see that every president has done what he thinks is right (Although there right/wrong may not fit with your political agenda).

    One, he delegates responsibility
    Name one president who hasn't done this.

    Two his eqo is too large in that he cannot take constructive criticism
    Have you heard of writing the president a letter, he reads 10 a day. I was listening to NPR and someone wrote him (and he read it) a letter explaining how feed up with how he was running the country etc etc... and he responded thanking him for his advice etc etc...

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