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Thread: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

  1. #131
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    to setup a shanty town
    Will the MSM call that place "Obamaville"?
    Be in general virtuous, and you will be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensibility View Post
    Will the MSM call that place "Obamaville"?
    No - that would be way to personal and cut against this President who they whole heartedly defend. I can't see that happening.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Of course not, what would it be replaced by?
    Exactly, but those marching and chanting 'Down with Capitalism', and 'Capitalism must end' seem to be wanting something closer to a Venezuelan model, no?

    If anything I would like major reforms
    Such as?

    Americans are upset with the two party system and would like a more multiparty system but no
    How many fractionalized candidates would you like to see in our system? Is there some law, or provision that says that others outside the two parties can not run?

    I would never want to get rid of Democracy
    You do realize that we are NOT a democracy right?

    I disagree j-mac, posting a video of one individual and trying to pretend that represents the whole movement is no different than saying the Tea partier that spit on the black Democratic Congressman and called him a ni--- represents the whole Tea Party.
    Except that the whole John Lewis, Tea Partier spitting affair was a made up Alinsky tactic employed by the left to marginalize opposition to Obamacare which was being rammed through against the American peoples wishes. It never happened.

    j-mac
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  4. #134
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Yes, but the point Councilman and the others are trying to make is that these people are unwashed hippies, bums, homeless people, and nutters who clearly don't care about themselves. They are the exact opposites of the pink, freshly scrubbed, privately pottied people of the American Dream. Republicans are clean. They all look like they work at Disneyland/World, perfect hair cuts for the gentlemen and ladies in dresses. Liberals are unkempt and earthy, dirty; they look like French people.

    The inference:

    "Do you want dirty people, French looking sumbitches, to get control of the nation? Or, would you prefer everyone to look like conservatives? God wants conservatives to run the country. God wants conservatives to control the world. Dirty, hippie, drug users who don't want to work, black people, homosexuals, Mexicans, braless tarts, most Europeans and Papists all smell like they sold their asses to the devil. Everyone knows that. Who does God want to prosper in America?"

    Except for the braless tarts I guess I am going to have to go with the Conservative group.

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Exactly, but those marching and chanting 'Down with Capitalism', and 'Capitalism must end' seem to be wanting something closer to a Venezuelan model, no?
    Of course, I don't think anybody would deny that when you're talking about elements on the left that you would get people chanting this. I don't think the majority of people want to see the end of capitalism they want to see the end of crony capitalism.
    How many fractionalized candidates would you like to see in our system? Is there some law, or provision that says that others outside the two parties can not run?
    No, it's more of a structural issue. A first past the post system kind of forces a 2 party system.
    I think it's obvious by the fact there's so many "independents" that people don't feel entirely represented by either of the two parties. They may identify with one party over another but they don't feel fully represented in their views. A multi-part system is much better in my view of representing people.

    You do realize that we are NOT a democracy right?
    Of course, I used it loosely.

    Except that the whole John Lewis, Tea Partier spitting affair was a made up Alinsky tactic employed by the left to marginalize opposition to Obamacare which was being rammed through against the American peoples wishes. It never happened.
    Really, because it happened on a national broadcast. How was it "made up"?

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Except that the whole John Lewis, Tea Partier spitting affair was a made up Alinsky tactic employed by the left to marginalize opposition to Obamacare which was being rammed through against the American peoples wishes. It never happened.
    I'm actually pretty curious about this because this is how I see it regarding your John Lewis theory. This seems common now on the right. Glenn Beck or some pundit says "Read Alinsky and see the tactics that Alinsky wrote about. This turns writings by Alinsky into "this is the tactics the left uses". This then turns into "anything in the news "our side" does is an Alinsky tactic to discredit us".

    Yes, do people use underhanded tactics? You'd be crazy to think otherwise. Does that mean anything that happens is some Alinsky tactic? You need to be able to prove it.

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm actually pretty curious about this because this is how I see it regarding your John Lewis theory. This seems common now on the right. Glenn Beck or some pundit says "Read Alinsky and see the tactics that Alinsky wrote about. This turns writings by Alinsky into "this is the tactics the left uses". This then turns into "anything in the news "our side" does is an Alinsky tactic to discredit us".

    Yes, do people use underhanded tactics? You'd be crazy to think otherwise. Does that mean anything that happens is some Alinsky tactic? You need to be able to prove it.
    It's not difficult - Rules for Radicals outlines exactly what to do and how to do it. An example of that is in 1972 when George Herbert Walker Bush was campaigning as described in a biography of Alinksy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Let them Call me a Rebel
    Amazon.com: Let Them Call Me Rebel: Saul Alinsky: His Life and Legacy (9780679734185): Sanford D. Horwitt: Books


    "Let The Call Me A Rebel" biography of Saul Alinsky"

    "...in the spring of 1972, at Tulane University...students asked Alinsky to help plan a protest of a scheduled speech by George H. W. Bush, then U.S. representative to the United Nations - a speech likely to include a defense of the Nixon administration's Vietnam War policies. The students told Alinsky they were thinking about picketing or disrupting Bush's address. That's the wrong approach, he rejoined, not very creative - and besides causing a disruption might get them thrown out of school. He told them, instead, to go to hear the speech dressed as members of the Ku Klux Klan, and whenever Bush said something in defense of the Vietnam War, they should cheer and wave placards reading, ‘The KKK supports Bush.' And that is what they did, with very successful, attention-getting results
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Of course, I don't think anybody would deny that when you're talking about elements on the left that you would get people chanting this. I don't think the majority of people want to see the end of capitalism they want to see the end of crony capitalism.

    Then I am sure you would apply the same restraint to paint with broad brushes, the Tea Party? Look, no one advocates crony capitalism, in fact when it happened with the Bush administration it was just as wrong as when Obama does it with Solyndra. Right?

    No, it's more of a structural issue. A first past the post system kind of forces a 2 party system.
    I think it's obvious by the fact there's so many "independents" that people don't feel entirely represented by either of the two parties.
    But that is my point, independents, Libertarians, Socialists, Communists, and any other group is able to get on the ballots by conforming to the rules that everyone else has to follow. There are plenty of alternatives if you look for them. However, if it is as you say a "structural issue" that would imply that you want to tear down that structure, and my question is replace it with what?


    They may identify with one party over another but they don't feel fully represented in their views.
    Then they are not locked into voting for those two are they? I mean I already pointed out that other parties exist....

    A multi-part system is much better in my view of representing people.
    We have that already. The fact that the two biggest dominate the political landscape is in no way demonstrative that others are not out there.

    Of course, I used it loosely.
    Language means alot, and to date some of our language is being changed to mean something it is not. ie; democratic, or democracy in total, in today's speak has little to do with actual freedom.

    Really, because it happened on a national broadcast. How was it "made up"?
    No, it was claimed on a National broadcast, by a media that largely has an anti Tea Party/Pro Obama agenda. Show me pics, or video of this happening, and then who was charged, arrested, or prosecuted for this.

    Until then it is a lie.

    The verdict in “Kelly’s Court” is in: the defendant is found guilty of “say it; don’t spray it.” Megyn Kelly debuted new video of a Tea Party protester confronting Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, who accused the man of spitting on him, and while the tape clearly shows the man screaming at the Congressman and the latter recoiling at a point, Kelly’s law correspondents see no evidence of intentional spitting.

    No surprise in Fox News taking the side of the Tea Party protesters, but nonetheless both the video and defense seem shaky. The video clearly shows a protester yelling at the Congressman, but there is no obvious motion of spitting from the protester. Defense Attorney Mark Eiglarsh broke down the facts: yes, there was saliva transferred from the Tea Party protester to the Congressman; yes, the Tea Party protester is not happy with the Congressman– but “can you see conclusively that he was just yelling or that he intentionally spat?” Eiglarsh argues you can’t.

    Fox News legal correspondent Arthur Aidala then notes that there is someone with a police uniform near him and spitting is “battery, that’s assault”– so why wasn’t there swifter action on the police’s part if there was actual spitting? “The guy is guilty of ‘say it, don’t spray it,’” he concluded.

    Tea Party spitting video - Emanuel Cleaver - Fox News | Mediaite
    So there you have it, the media inflated this intentionally as some do today to generalize that all Tea partiers are racists, and spit on black caucus members...So why is again that I shouldn't do that concerning that jack ass verbally attacking the Jewish man at the OWS?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  9. #139
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    It's not difficult - Rules for Radicals outlines exactly what to do and how to do it. An example of that is in 1972 when George Herbert Walker Bush was campaigning as described in a biography of Alinksy.
    Saying it happens and that anything that puts the Tea party or conservative protests in a bad light is Alinsky tactics is not the same thing.

    Barring some sort of proof you can not just assume it's Liberals in the crowd spitting on the guy. If you could show where that's the case, sure I could believe it coming from a credible source.

  10. #140
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Saying it happens and that anything that puts the Tea party or conservative protests in a bad light is Alinsky tactics is not the same thing.
    It just so happens that Alinsky wasn't a Conservative - the intent of his writings and teachings were to push a very Progressive and socialistic agenda to then liberals - such that they can undermine Republican and Conservative ideals. It just so happens that some of Alinsky's teachings have become so mainstream and his tactics so common that they're not always attributed.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Barring some sort of proof you can not just assume it's Liberals in the crowd spitting on the guy. If you could show where that's the case, sure I could believe it coming from a credible source.
    I'm not saying it's always used, but the tactics are certainly common enough. Do you have a specific instance in mind? I have my copy of Rules for Radicals and can review my highlights to see if it coincides.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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