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Thread: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

  1. #111
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    I see, so you're claiming the arrests were bogus, and were simply for "walking on the street". Can you provide evidence of these bogus arrests and use of pepper spray? And can I assume that there will be legal suits brought against the NYC Police Department because of them?
    Hundreds of 'Occupy Wall Street' protesters arrested - Oct. 2, 2011
    "Over 700 summonses and desk appearance tickets have been issued in connection with the demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge ... after multiple warnings by police were given to protesters to stay on the pedestrian walkway," said Paul J. Browne, deputy commissioner for the New York City Police Department.

    Browne said authorities had warned protesters they would be arrested if they occupied the roadway.

    "Some complied and took the walkway without being arrested," he said.

    I'm stating that, when comparing the OWS to the Tea Party rallies of the past, the OWS are more violent (not I did NOT say they are all violent). I have also stated multiple times that OWS needs to focus their message and make it coherent and organized if they are to be taken seriously.
    I would agree with that statement. Maybe not the specific goals part. The whole point is anger at inequality and anger at our corporate/financial powers that be that have bought Washington and profited greatly while Americans have been suffering in the current economy.

    I've listed in another thread, the 4 different demands of the various people calling themselves OWS.

    Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums (Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally')
    Of course it's new still. It takes time to come up with an actual list of goals.

  2. #112
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    A question for Ramen.....Do you believe that this country should, or needs to abolish our current form of government?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #113
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The freedom fighter vs terrorists is not a the same thing. A terrorists uses terror usually against a civilian population to get what they want. A freedom fighter generally targets the military or infrastructure that supports the military. The French resistence in WWII did not target the general population, they targeted rail lines.

    I think it's hard to paint the occupy wall street group as reactionary because their whole movment is focused on the status quo, the 1% controlling the wealth.
    taxing the rich more and whining about corporations is reactionary. It has its roots in those who whined about "Papist immigrants" and Jewish "bankers" more than a century ago.

    its losers blaming their failures on idiotic conspiracy theories perpetrated by the winners



  4. #114
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    You missed the meaning ... "one persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist". It means different people have different views of the same action. I'm hoping I don't have to explain this concept.
    I agree...I understand completely. My point the mis-use of the terms is wrong and is used to paint some side with a word that can have a positive connotation or negative connotation is just propaganda. Which is exactly what's happening now, you can't watch a conservative politician or pundit that doesn't seem to call the wall street protests a "mob" in order to target them by associating them with a "mob" rather than a protest.

    In Iraq, there were groups that were strictly insurgents...people that targeted military personel overseas. Now freedom fighter is really nothing than a resistence to occupation and the US government and Iraq government actually worked with these groups to bring them in to the decision making process. They were not terrorists and naming them so would be incorrect. Al Qaeda in Iraq were bombing civilian populations in Iraq and using terror as a means for political change. They are terrorists.

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    The face of OWS...



    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #116
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    A terrorist, just as the name implies, is someone or some group that uses actions intended to strike fear and terror into it's intended target, in order to accomplish it's usually political or religious goals. A freedom fighter can be a terrorist, and a terrorist can be a freedom fighter, but the two are not the same.

  7. #117
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree...I understand completely. My point the mis-use of the terms is wrong and is used to paint some side with a word that can have a positive connotation or negative connotation is just propaganda. Which is exactly what's happening now, you can't watch a conservative politician or pundit that doesn't seem to call the wall street protests a "mob" in order to target them by associating them with a "mob" rather than a protest.
    That's just the way partisan politics and media works. The same was true of the Tea Party being called racist 10 ways to Sunday by Congressional Democrats, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Media, the Liberal pundits, etc. I think this group knows that, but they cannot counter it.... and what I meant by they are taring and feathering themselves is, that there are many signs and people who fall right into the criticisms and gladly do - which does not help their cause but detracts from it. The majority of America's middle class, lower middle class and upper middle class politically and ideologically do not resonate with the message in NYC by the OWS crowd While this may be garnering media coverage and comment by politicians, it's not yet focused or tempered for the main stream masses. The OWS groups are appealing to others who share their various and differing philosophy's.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    In Iraq, there were groups that were strictly insurgents...people that targeted military personel overseas. Now freedom fighter is really nothing than a resistence to occupation and the US government and Iraq government actually worked with these groups to bring them in to the decision making process. They were not terrorists and naming them so would be incorrect. Al Qaeda in Iraq were bombing civilian populations in Iraq and using terror as a means for political change. They are terrorists.
    According to you. Others may see an insurgent as nothing more than a terrorist. Iraqi's may have the opinion that what American's called "insurgents" were actually "freedom fighters". I understand your view and opinion - but do not think for a moment that there is consensus as to the definitions - there are not. As was pointed out by others in various different threads, George Washington was seen by Britain as a radical and treasonous. To the American's he was fighting for, he was fighting for independence and liberty for a new country.... you see the differences I expect.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #118
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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The face of OWS...



    j-mac
    Yeah, that certainly doesn't help their cause --- especially when a dumbass like this knows he's being recorded. *facepalm*
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    A question for Ramen.....Do you believe that this country should, or needs to abolish our current form of government?
    Of course not, what would it be replaced by? If anything I would like major reforms, I think a lot of Americans are upset with the two party system and would like a more multiparty system but no, I would never want to get rid of Democracy, I don't care how much I agree with a message (say equality for example).

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    Re: Owners of Zuccotti Park Say Conditions Unsanitary From Wall Street Protests

    I disagree j-mac, posting a video of one individual and trying to pretend that represents the whole movement is no different than saying the Tea partier that spit on the black Democratic Congressman and called him a ni--- represents the whole Tea Party.

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