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Thread: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    When you plan attacks in other nations, and your nation is not under attack, you are not a freedom fighter, you are simply a terrorist.
    Did you just call every member of the US armed forces and civillian leadership terrorists? Or do you invoke the American exceptionalism argument?
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    Did you just call every member of the US armed forces and civillian leadership terrorists? Or do you invoke the American exceptionalism argument?
    Way to go, pulling my words out of context.

    Of course, the answer is no. The US military does NOT directly target civilians. They do NOT strap bomb vests to retarded people and send them into crowded markets to be exploded. That's terrorism. They do NOT throw acid in teen-aged girls' faces to punish them for going to school. That's terrorism. They do NOT plant serin gas nor bombs in crowded subways filled with civilians. That's terrorism. They do NOT launch missiles, at neighborhoods with no military value, from schoolyards hoping that counter-battery fire will kill the children in the schoolyard. That's terrorism. They do NOT plant bombs in civilian airliners hoping to kill all the innocents inside. That's terrorism.

    Capice?

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    If Pakistan didn't have nukes, I'd be with you on that one buddy.

    Pakistan however does have an ally that doesn't really care what it does, and that's China.

    The thing is niether the US nor the Chinese can afford to let Pakistan go failed state.

    I really, truly, madly, deeply hope there's a contingency plan in place to invade Pakistan, secure all Nuclear Weapons and ship them out of the country if things go pear shaped.

    More likely they'll just bumrush money to whichever army general can bring things under control as fast as possible but I hope there's a plan beyond that.
    Pakistan has played both sides of the fence where U.S. military and political involvement is concerned. But we have one ace up our sleves and it's called INDIA!

    From the book, "Obama's Wars," by Bob Woodward, pg 4:

    The Pakistani leadership believed the U.S. would eventually withdraw from the region, as it had toward the end of the Cold War once the occupying Soviet forces retreated from Afghanistan in 1989. Their paranoid mind-set was, in part, understandable. If America moved out again, India and Iran would fill the power vacuum inside Afghanistan. And most of all, Pakistan feared India, an avowed enemy for more than 60 years. As a growing economic and military powerhouse, India had numerous intelligence programs inside Afghanistan to spread its influence there. Pakistan worried more about being encircled by India than being underminded by extremists inside its borders.
    From WorldNews.com: "Pakistan warns Afghanistan after deal with India sparks fears of encirclement by New Delhi"

    Seems Pakistans worse fear has become reality. Hopefully, this Afghan-India alliance which clearly has large support by the U.S. government (backed by both the Obama administration and the former GW Bush administration) will keep the Pakistanis in line especially since the U.S. is starting to withdraw support for Pakistan.

    See World News article, "Terror shadow: US set to cut Pak ties."
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-08-11 at 04:09 PM.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Perhaps I can mediate here. While I agree with what Jetboogieman is saying, I think I understand what sawyerloggingon is saying.



    I think a Freedom Fighter would be someone who feels his country is overwhelmed by foreign forces and fights against them in a war of attrition to persuade them to leave. Once the foreign forces leave, he will be sated and go back to farming or whatever he did before.

    But if the freedom fighter is NOT sated once foreign forces leave, and he fully intends to spread his ideology/religion to other nations, then I think he cannot be described as a Freedom Fighter. When you plan attacks in other nations, and your nation is not under attack, you are not a freedom fighter, you are simply a terrorist. So the revolutionaries of Egypt and Libya were freedom fighters. Once the tyrants were pushed out of their country, they stopped fighting. Al-Queda, are NOT freedom fighters. They move from country to country pushing their own brand of Muslim faith on everyone else, not just the US or the Western nations. The Taliban, had they stayed in Afghanistan could call themselves freedom fighters, but they expanded into Pakistan (Swat Valley) and to some degree, into China. So the Taliban are not freedom fighters after all.

    That being said, I found this link about the Wahabi sect:
    Wahhabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Here's an excerpt:


    Frankly, I don't think there is anything militant about the Muslim faith at all. What we see are people who use it as a tool for conquest. When someone spreads a religion through the use of violence, they aren't trying to make anyone's life or afterlife any better. They are trying to establish a "power base" for their own personal benefit.
    You do seem to get what I'm saying, thank you. Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a brick wall in here.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Pakistan has played both sides of the fence where U.S. military and political involvement is concerned. But we have one ace up our sleeves and it's called INDIA!.......

    Seems Pakistan's worse fear has become reality. Hopefully, this Afghan-India alliance which clearly has large support by the U.S. government (backed by both the Obama administration and the former GW Bush administration) will keep the Pakistanis in line especially since the U.S. is starting to withdraw support for Pakistan.
    Looks like Obama has come up with a non-military solution to both securing Afghanistan when we leave and to limiting the power of a country that has been proven to be harboring, protecting and likely funding terrorists. Perhaps much of the money that has been going to Pakistan could be directed toward India instead and US bases in India and Afghanistan could serve to protect countries that are not terrorists-friendly from countries that are.

    Pakistan has nukes, but would it be will to use them if it knew Islamabad would turn into Chernobyl if they did?
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Looks like Obama has come up with a non-military solution to both securing Afghanistan when we leave and to limiting the power of a country that has been proven to be harboring, protecting and likely funding terrorists. Perhaps much of the money that has been going to Pakistan could be directed toward India instead and US bases in India and Afghanistan could serve to protect countries that are not terrorists-friendly from countries that are.

    Pakistan has nukes, but would it be will to use them if it knew Islamabad would turn into Chernobyl if they did?
    Sounds like a good exit strategy to me. I still don't know why we backed Pakistan over India in the first place.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

    Never forget that.

    You can buy a countrys president, it's generals.

    But you can't buy its people and its army.

    That doesn't make what's happening right, but to understand it requires an ability to look at things from a perspective I suspect you are not capable of.
    For whose freedom, and on whose behalf, was Osama ben Laden fighting for?

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    For whose freedom, and on whose behalf, was Osama ben Laden fighting for?
    For Afghanistan when Russia attempted to invade Afghanistan in 1979 Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    From what I understand, the bastards have a PROFILE of the type of kid they seek out to brainwash into dying for Allah.
    Certainly. And it has been know for some time that many people can easily become Fascist, Communist, Nazi or Islamic terrorist. The ideology doesn't really matter. Teaching people to hate the other is what's important, and to blame others for the unhappiness and uncertainty in their own lives.

    The pattern is the same with all these ideologies and with similar goals of eternal happiness for themselves and for those who share their battle.

    To put that to the test we can easily see how advanced nations like Germany and Italy became Nazis and Fascists while many in the West supported Communism, or how many have sympathy for radical Islam. The missing link is us.

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    Re: Bin Laden death: 'CIA doctor' accused of treason

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    For Afghanistan when Russia attempted to invade Afghanistan in 1979 Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That really doesn't explain why Ben Laden attacked the Twin Towers on 9/11. For whose freedom was he fighting for on that day?

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