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Thread: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No, of course not. But that in no way contradicts the fact that the statement "Governments regulate only for the sake of regulating" is inherently idiotic. Regulations don't exist for their own sake. Neither do regulators simply regulate because they are on a power trip. Congress did not pass the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act because they thought it would be fun for the folks at the EPA to piss people off.
    But that is not what was said. Henrin said "Governments regulate because it gives them power. No other reason", which is true. If regulations didn't give the government power why would they adopt regulations?

    When regulations are mentioned it is usually of the chemical waste put in public water facilities scenario, and that is one regulation we can all agree upon. But what about regulations that don't allow an individual to plant a garden in their front yard, or a hardware store owner not being allowed to offer free coffee to his customers, or a little girl arrested for selling lemonade. Mattress inspectors? As one small example, why does anyone need a permit to cut someone's hair?

    We learn to accept these inane regulations thinking they are somehow in the public good but often without examining their consequences.

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Politicians and bureaucrats have a lot less power than you think.
    Certainly that depends on the country they're in. There is no doubt that there are many people who simply want power for its own sake, and they can often do a great deal of harm if there aren't sufficient and enforceable checks and balances in place.

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    Certainly that depends on the country they're in. There is no doubt that there are many people who simply want power for its own sake, and they can often do a great deal of harm if there aren't sufficient and enforceable checks and balances in place.
    There is no such thing as "power for its own sake." Further, all politicians are limited by their financiers and, to a lesser extent, the public, as well as the bureaucrats with whom they work. Bureaucrats are individuals limited by the scope of their job and influence, including the conflicting interests between themselves, the public, other bureaucrats and politicians.

    Speaking about government the way you do makes no sense; the absurd regulations of which you speak are due precisely to the lack of homogeneity within the government, i.e. the exact opposite of what you are claiming.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If that's not stupid talk, I don't know what is.
    Its true. There is already laws against murder and such things but we pass regulations on food safety and the sort because it kills people. Maybe you need to figure the range of punishments on businesses for actions that cause harm of any sort but there is no reason to pass narrow regulations on such matters that merely allow the government to pick the solutions to solve a problem that arrived and needs handling. All it does is allow the government to control the market and the decisions of business owners when something goes wrong. It is nothing but control.

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There is no such thing as "power for its own sake." Further, all politicians are limited by their financiers and, to a lesser extent, the public, as well as the bureaucrats with whom they work. Bureaucrats are individuals limited by the scope of their job and influence, including the conflicting interests between themselves, the public, other bureaucrats and politicians.

    Speaking about government the way you do makes no sense; the absurd regulations of which you speak are due precisely to the lack of homogeneity within the government, i.e. the exact opposite of what you are claiming.
    Are you speaking in general terms here or of a specific country?

    You feel that there are not people who only want power over others and will fight to maintain that power despite it being evident that their policies are not working? History is riddled with such types.

    And politicians can also control financiers, as well as the banks. That has been demonstrated repeatedly also.

    Certainly bureaucrats are limited by the scope of their job and influence but that does not mean that they will not enthusiastically enforce whatever powers they might have.

    And of course, unless there is a great deal of pressure on an individual, there will always be a "lack of homogeneity" within any group, including a government.

    How would you enforce homogeneity?

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It's weird to me that you seem to be holding a position passionately that you aren't able to come up with any arguments to defend. Maybe that means you got something wrong, no?



    What are you talking about? The corporate income taxes that only 1 in 3 businesses pay at all? That make up like 5% of our federal revenues? We could hardly be giving businesses a freer ride than we are...



    Come on man. Worker productivity isn't something I cam up with or that I calculated... Obviously you know that, right? It's a standard economic measure. The BLS publishes the numbers every quarter...
    I swear I saw Conservative say he was a human resources guy.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Certainly bureaucrats are limited by the scope of their job and influence but that does not mean that they will not enthusiastically enforce whatever powers they might have.
    At this point in your post it has become obvious that you have completely missed my point.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    At this point in your post it has become obvious that you have completely missed my point.
    He often does that.

    But what do you expect from a person who's only point ever seems to be "Left evil, Right holier then thou".

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    At this point in your post it has become obvious that you have completely missed my point.
    You never really had a point. You were dealing in unrealistic generalities that went nowhere.

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    Re: Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    He often does that.

    But what do you expect from a person who's only point ever seems to be "Left evil, Right holier then thou".
    Do you have any links to support that claim or are you just blowing smoke out your ass again?

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